September 20, 2000

The meeting was called to order at 7:00pm. Present were Daniel Province, chair, Betty Balthaser, Janice Collette, Mike Hurd, Glen Hymer, Dorothy Jantzen, JoEllen Locke, Tom Morris, Jamie Mueller, Jan Province, Bill Saxton, Rick Weber, and Jeff Woodson. Frank and Hoang were excused. Also present were Mike Bobby, Jeff Brown, Sgt. David Eing, Tom Fortin, Nikki Jenkins, Dick Slane, Ike Stage, Rick Tilton, and others.

Province introduced Nikki Jenkins and Rick Tilton, who came to speak about Neighborhood Pride, an initiative that was started by the mayor to empower communities. Six city departments will come into the Westland area, in order to show the neighborhoods what a good community should be like. The participating city departments are Trade and Development, Recreation and Parks, Public Service, Public Utilities, Public Safety, and the Health Department.

Trade and Development will bring in Code Enforcement. They will not be looking for minor things, but will focus only on major problems. Janine Aeh already said she didn't think the Westland area has anything to worry about. Someone from the Homeowner Assistance Program will be providing information on how to get grants and loans to make repairs. The Mobile Tool Library will be there. Recreation and Parks will bring a forester that will be planting trees and trimming bushes in the park (if there is a park), and mowing grass. They will replace any signs that are wrong. Public Service will clean alleys, if there are any (there aren't). They will also do graffiti removal and street sweeping. Public Utilities will repair any streetlights that are out. They will also paint the fire hydrants. Public Safety will provide a mobile police unit and a fire unit. The Health Department will distribute information about immunizations and screening for lead.

They will be in the neighborhood from October 16 to 20. Also, the Thursday night of that week, will be the Community Night. They will be setting up a service center in the district, which will be open until 8:00pm. It is a chance for neighbors to talk to directors or assistant directors from the different city departments.

They have done six neighborhoods in May, June, and July. (They will be in Clintonville from October 2 through 6). They have run into a misconception everywhere they went, that this program will be punitive. They want to work with residents who have loose gutters, or who qualify for assistance to make repairs. Absentee landlords, however, will not get an easy ride.

When Neighborhood Pride Week is over, they want to stay in contact with the neighborhood. That's why they have created a survey form. They would like to know the specific address of a specific problem. This is a way we can help the city to correct problems, to make a better neighborhood.

They will take the survey forms to the Mayor's Action Center, which will catalogue the forms, and route them to the appropriate department or division.

J. Province asked whether the mayor's office will follow up to verify whether the departments have actually acted upon the information in the questionnaires.

Right. They will be catalogued and forwarded to the departments, and they will track to see whether the work gets done.

J. Province said that some shingles have blown off the roof of a gazebo in an area park. Recreation and Parks Department has already said that they do not have the funding to do the repair work, and they do not want the neighbors to repair it.

Locke said that the city wants to replace the shingles with a metal roof.

…But they also say they don't have the money to do it.

D. Province said that, if this isn't done, we will throw it in their faces.

Tilton said to write it down…

D. Province said this was done already.

When was it done?

D. Province said he sent a letter to Alan McKnight about a month, or maybe six weeks ago.

D. Province said that the major problems in the neighborhood involve trucks parked in residential areas overnight and on weekends, and cars up on blocks, or too many cars parked in the front yard. That is why we were hoping for an inspection at night, or on a Saturday.

Tilton said that Code Enforcement knows all the minute details about dealing with wrecked or abandoned cars. If the car is on private property, it is stickier to deal with than a car that is in the public right-of-way. They will chalk a tire, and if the car isn't moved within a certain period of time, than they will come back and tow it. When all the people from the different departments come together into the neighborhood, this is one of the things they will be looking for.

Jenkins picked up some completed forms.

Zoning Committee (Saxton): Saxton announced that the first issue on tonight's agenda is a re-hearing of Z00-065, the corner of Holt and Big Run Road. Saxton introduced Jeff Brown, the attorney representing Dan Slane, the developer. Saxton also introduced Ike Stage, who represents Grove City, and Mike Bobby, representing South-Western City Schools. Saxton said that everything has changed since we last heard the proposal. It had been a request for single-family homes, which we had been objecting to; now they want apartments.

Brown introduced a request for rezoning involving the northwest corner of Holt Road and Big Run South. Originally, they had been looking at the possibility of doing a mixture of commercial and single-family homes. "And there was some questions about traffic and how you would access the traffic signal with the school across the street, and there was some strong criticism of this single-family, so what we did is, listened to everybody, and then Dan Slane had a meeting with the county engineer with the school board in Grove City, and I can let him go into more detail about that, but, just to get you orientated…"

The school development is directly across Holt Road from the site in question. There is a church complex under construction right now, near Big Run South. Originally, the plan was to have commercial development at the south end of the site, and the area to the north would be entirely single-family. But, after all the conversations, the developer revised the plan. They brought the commercial development north along Holt Road. One of the reasons for this change is that the county is planning to make some improvements to the intersection, along with installation of some traffic signals. One of the points that has been designated for a potential traffic signal is a driveway that will connect to Holt Road, since it lines up with a school driveway. So, the county told the developer to line up the access road with the driveway at that point, and that created problems when they were doing the single-family layout. To solve that problem, they extended the commercial development to the north. There will be a private road that will probably need a council variance, because commercial traffic will use it, though it will be zoned multi-family, because it is the frontage to get back to the multi-family development. The city will probably require that they also file a council variance request, because this will be a private, not a public street. Obviously, if this is a signalized intersection, there will be traffic going into the multi-family development and there will be cars going across, into the commercial area.

In the southern part of the development, where it was originally planned to be commercial development, Slane has had several meetings with Grove City about the "look" of the development, from an architectural and landscaping standpoint.

Brown displayed an architectural rendering of the proposed Big Bear shopping center.

On the south side of Big Run South is Grove City. The north side of the road is Columbus. They tried to reach out, across jurisdictions, and have discussions, since, obviously, a lot of the customers for these stores will be Grove City residents.

When you look at the combination of uses, in terms of the church facility, the schools and library, there will be a lot of activity in the area, not only in the daytime, but in the evening with sporting events and other after-school activities. To the north, there are additional single-family and multi-family developments on both sides of Holt Road. Therefore, they are creating a Town Center.

Slane said that the county intends to build a median strip down Holt Road. The only full cut will be at the proposed traffic signal. Otherwise, there will be a concrete barrier. That dictated the major change in the plan, and wiped out the single-family idea.

Brown said that they have re-done the traffic study. The site is big enough to require it under city code. It was done with the original proposal. Now, they have had to have it re-done to reflect the new development plan. It will be taken to the city in the next couple of days. They will be happy to provide Grove City, and anyone else who is interested, with a copy of the report when that is done. This is a technical requirement. It will dictate how long the turning lanes are going to have to be, and other things of that nature. The county has told Slane that they would have to contribute the equivalent cost, or percentage, of the traffic he generates, and he has agreed to do that.

In addition to that, under the new city requirement, they are required to install sidewalks on their street frontages, so there will be sidewalk along Holt Road, all the way to Big Run.

There will be other curb cuts, but they won't be full access.

Bobby said that he is speaking on behalf of the South-Western City Schools. He has had some discussions with Mr. Slane, and he has been in discussion with Franklin County, Jackson Township, and Grove City for some time.

Their concerns are similar to the ones they voiced before. They are concerned about traffic flow, safety, and security. Their engineers have reviewed the latest design, and they are comfortable with it, as far as development of the school property is concerned. They have received, since the last time WAC met, through the Board of Education and some of the administration, some comments from the community members who have looked at the proposed development, and have some concern about the mix of clientele between the shopping center and the school site. They have to continue to look at safety and security issues, lines of sight, traffic control, any structures that will enhance and insure the safety of children on the site as well as parents and community members who visit the site.

On the site, in addition to the school that is currently under construction, there will be a high school with 1800 students and a career academy with another 700 students. In addition to that, there will be a library that will be operated in conjunction with Southwest Public Libraries, as well as some other things at the career academy. There will be a tremendous amount of activity on that site.

Safety, security, lines of sight, and sidewalks are all important issues to the South-Western City Schools. Based upon their review at this point, their engineers are satisfied with what is being done.

Mueller asked whether the schools and library will all be in the northeast quadrant.

Slane said no. There will be two access points to the schools. The main entrance will be off Holt Road, and there will be another access point off Big Run.

The entrance from Big Run South is lined up with Southwest Boulevard. And the main entrance is aligned with the proposed development to the left. There is an additional, secondary entrance, farther down the road on Big Run South, to the east of their property.

D. Province asked whether the schools have concerns about the possible establishment of a laundro-bar. There is nothing in the text that would prohibit one.

Bobby said that it has always been their position to oppose bars and similar activities across the street from a school site.

Mueller asked where they are in reference to liquor licenses in proximity to schools.

Brown said that he isn't a liquor attorney. However, he is aware that, if there is an application for a liquor license for a site that is too close to a school, then the school can object to the issuance of the license. Obviously, one of the applicants for a liquor license will be the Big Bear grocery store. For the convenience of the customers, they will want to have the normal product line, and that includes beer and wine.

Slane said they would agree to having no bars.

Province said he is concerned about one of those eyesores that have big Lotto signs, and beer ads…

Slane said that, if the principal business is a restaurant, then they would ask that the business be allowed to serve drinks.

What about carry-outs? Or a drive-through?

Brown said that a drive-through that is part of the shopping center is a permitted C-4 use. He doesn't know how likely that is, in terms of a possible use.

Slane said that the development is being driven by Big Bear, and Big Bear will sell beer and wine. Big Bear will want exclusive rights to sell beer and wine. Thus, they will not allow anyone else to sell beer and wine, or other groceries, for that matter.

J. Province remarked that the architect's rendering does not show any outparcels at all.

They have verified that there will be outparcels along Holt Road.

D. Province asked where the parking areas will be.

Brown said there will probably have to be a couple of retention ponds. They are not sure where the ponds and outparcels will be. They looked at the typical sizes of outparcels, and how they would divide up. Big Bear will probably want to establish one of their own gas stations, and they would want it to be right on the corner.

Would there be a problem with putting drive-throughs in the exclusion text?

Brown said that would be no problem. No beer or wine drive-throughs.

Is Holt Road going to be widened?

Yes.

…To three lanes?

There will be turn lanes, and a median. They will develop the median strip down the middle of Holt. Then, the intersection will be extensively engineered, with turn lanes in all directions.

But not Holt Road north of the site?

Brown said no, not at this time. He doesn't think the county project goes that far north.

Saxton said he understands the school will install an asphalt path along Holt Road, on their property.

Bobby said there will be a place for it. Their plan, right now, is that they wouldn't necessarily put it in right away. Originally, there wasn't any way to bring pedestrian traffic from the north or south. There are no pedestrian walkways outside their property line. Therefore, they expected pedestrians to walk in the street. When the pedestrians appear, they will build a sidewalk, and they will connect it with whatever exists.

Province said there are places to the north right now, in the condominium development.

Brown said there will be internal circulation, with the curb cut on Big Run.

Bobby said that, within the property, there will be adequate sidewalks and bicycle paths. They are working on a plan to allow bike and pedestrian access from the Qualstan development, north and south.

…Under the wires?

…In that general vicinity, yes.

Mueller asked whether the library will be in the northeast quadrant.

Bobby said the library will be within the high school. The high school will be on the east side of the high-tension power lines.

It will basically cover the sixty acres of the eastern portion of the property. The library will be in the front, center portion of the high school.

Morris asked whether the school won't have a problem with the fact that Holt Road will not be improved all the way from the north.

The amount of infrastructure improvement needing to be completed prior to 2002 includes everything from the northern property line of the school site, south through the intersection, including the intersection of Holt and Big Run, and then east on Big Run to the eastern property line of the school site. Phase Two, which is probably two years down the road, would include the rest of Big Run South to the intersection of Demorest and Big Run. In four years, there would be improved roadways from Demorest to the northern part of the school site.

The high school is two years away. The building that is under construction right now should be completed by January.

Saxton asked, How many years away is Big Bear?

They will probably begin construction in the spring. They would hope to be open for business in 2002.

Saxton said that means the intersection should be completed before the high school is completed.

Yes.

Saxton introduced Ike Stage.

Stage said he appreciates the opportunity to speak before WAC, and he appreciates the cooperation of Mr. Slane, since the area in question is outside Grove City's jurisdiction. It is, however, at their front door.

Grove City's concerns have been primarily isolated to the Big Run Road area. As they look at this development, and how it would compliment their general area, they felt there were certain characteristics that Mr. Slane has incorporated into his development plan.

Stage said he was not able to ascertain from the documentation, how many square feet of retail space they anticipate.

Brown said he does not know. Slane said it would take about ten years to build all the available spaces. The problem is that the county stuck the main access road so far up north. He imagines it would take at least ten years to fill all the available space.

The limitation text raises questions. He is not familiar with what is in 335502, in the C-4 commercial zoning. But, going back to the question about beer and wine drive-throughs, the text does specifically state that convenience stores with gasoline sales are allowed within this zoning. Therefore, he would assume that they would clarify that convenience stores would be allowed, barring the sale of alcohol.

In terms of the gas station?

Yes.

Yeah. The gas station will be owned by Big Bear, so they will not have beer and wine for sale there.

Stage said he would want it to be a general provision for the whole area. He was thinking about other outparcels.

Slane said he could add that. The concern is not having beer and wine in the gas station. He is sure they can agree with that.

Saxton said it's too easy for the high school kids to get it.

Yes, right.

Stage said that the text includes the comment about no bars. Is someone taking the minutes?

D. Province said that it is being recorded, and J. Province is writing minutes.

Brown said he isn't sure the city will allow language about alcohol in the limitation text, because they don't enforce those laws. He will check with the city. Unfortunately, there is no definition of a "bar." He just worries about whether the zoning staff will sign off on it, if it includes that language.

Stage said that the setbacks mentioned on page 2 of the text say that the building setbacks on Holt Road and Big Run Road shall be fifty feet, except for the C-4 and gasoline sales. He isn't sure about that…

Brown said that the city considers the canopy a building, so the reason it is written that way for the outparcels is to give it flexibility. Otherwise, the canopy is much closer than the main building, and that becomes a problem. They are trying to address that up front, instead of coming back and asking for a variance later on. That's why they have created the different standard.

Stage said he doesn't think fifty feet is enough. That is the question. He understands the difference between a building and a canopy. He is also not sure about, in the agreement with Columbus, is if the developer is dedicating the right-of-way as part of the transaction.

Brown said they are required to dedicate the right-of-way in accordance with the Thoroughfare Plan.

And that's all?

Slane said the county is asking for fifty feet from the edge of the road. Then, there is another fifty-foot setback to the canopy, and, typically, it's another twenty-five feet to the building.

Stage said that, he would suggest that, for purposes of keeping text as close as possible to what's going to happen, that they incorporate that kind of language into the text.

Brown said, "…That we're going to give the right-of-way?"

Slane said, "That's fine."

In the section about buffering and landscaping, one tree per forty feet, with a height of five feet, is…

Brown said that refers to evergreens. They are done by height. The others are by caliber.

Right. But he isn't sure that one tree per forty feet of frontage is dense enough. In Grove City, it would not be.

Brown said that those trees are frontage trees. They aren't there to hide anything. They are to dress up the street, and to create interest, and some relief from the building. They are an accent. If you look any of the subdivisions, or some of the developments at Easton, there is stuff in front of the parking areas and along the roadway that creates the first visual break that you have. They aren't intended to screen anything.

Stage said that he doesn't know how Columbus would handle that, but it wouldn't be to standard in Grove City.

Stage said that, in the building design, he would suggest that the WAC entertain a percentage of use of material. It says that exterior materials shall be of brick, stone, stone veneer, or a combination of the three. If we want a stone-looking building, we should specify that the building be at least 30% stone, or 40% stone, or something to give us a little more leverage in what it will look like.

Saxton said we had an agreement that the buildings would be of the same type as the brick of the schools. He thought we established that the last time.

Brown said yes.

Stage said we should tighten up the language.

Saxton asked Brown whether he would do that.

Yes.

The lighting… There is a candle requirement, but he doesn't know what it is for Columbus. Is there a candle requirement?

No. Well, there is something in the building code, but the bigger concern is the safety and liability factor. The place will be well lit.

Brown said that what Columbus usually looks for in a neighborhood is cut-off light fixtures, which they have. Also, they limit the height of the poles, which they have done, to twenty feet.

All right.

The islands aren't specific in the parking lots. It just says that, in the parking lots, lights shall be placed on a raised island or median to protect those lights and prevent vehicle damage. It doesn't say anything about landscaping those islands.

Brown said the city requires, he thinks, one tree and sixteen square feet for every ten parking spaces.

Stage said that it defaults to the city code, where not specified.

Right. In the text, what they do is modify stuff as necessary, or add additional requirements, or it defaults to the code.

Stage said that the text mentions screening the dumpsters on three sides. It should be identified further as to where the dumpsters will actually be placed, and to create an environment where they won't be visible from Big Run South going eastbound.

Brown said that there will be screening on three sides, and a gate on the fourth side. Therefore, he doesn't see where the problem is.

It depends upon where they place them.

Province said, "…Where the opening is placed."

Yes. For instance, the L-shape by the Big Bear. If you place the dumpsters right there, all along the building…

Slane said, if you're concerned about the visibility of the dumpsters, we could agree that the dumpsters will be placed somewhere where they will not be visible from Big Run South.

Stage said, "That's my point."

Province said that he thinks that that's why Ike was getting into the density of the trees.

Stage said, they could make it so the dumpsters will not be visible from Big Run South.

Province said we asked to see the backs of the buildings, where the graffiti ends up.

Stage said that the mechanicals on the tops of the buildings should be screened on all sides, especially in regard to how they will look from Big Run, going east. He is concerned about how they will look from the back. He didn't see that in the text.

Saxton asked whether they have any trouble with that.

No.

On the AR-12, is Stage to assume that that means twelve units per acre?

Yes.

He would, therefore, suggest that, in the text for L-AR-12, that the architectural design be made consistent with the shopping center.

Brown said that a limitation text can be as long or as short as they agreed to do.

Then, Stage suggests that, in paragraph D of Section III, where it mentions building interior and exterior treatment, that it say that the apartment buildings should be a compliment to complex, so that there will be a consistent architectural design.

Brown said that they aren't the same use, so the materials used on the exteriors of the shopping centers or on the outlots would be the same that would be used on the apartments. Another problem is that they don't have a user, or anything like that. So, it would be hard to make any specifics.

Province said that "Complimentary" is a nice word that doesn't mean anything in Code.

Right. Brown replied that Code Enforcement calls him up and yells at him, asking what this means. Or, Dan, when he gets a buyer, when they go to Zoning, and no one knows what "complimentary" means, Dan calls him up and yells at him.

Slane said, "Well, I think we understand. I think we want to do something that's nice in there, that…I think we can use that word."

Stage said that Grove City's concern is not so much with the shopping center and the apartments, because they are in Columbus, and they will probably happen. And if it doesn't happen, something else will happen. They have some insight here, and they can be a part of it. "Our concern is that, in the Thoroughfare Plan, for the minutes, we did discuss the city of Grove City participating in the upgrading of Big Run from Holt to three hundred feet east of Southwest Boulevard, which gets us almost, I think, to the property line. The incremental cost in putting it to the city of Grove City standards is three hundred-some thousand dollars which the city of Grove City would pay. It's contingent upon the county letting us annex their right of way, but we are willing to do that, I guess. At least, a poll vote last night, of four council members shaking their heads yes, and there were only four people there. That's definitely what they want to pursue.

"As a side note, if there is any way that we can participate on the Holt Road side, they are open-minded about that as well. So our direction is to still try to maintain that intersection in a way that is in a city-typical street mode, not in a county open-ditch, turn-lane, typical mode."

Province asked Stage whether he would be participating in putting the traffic signals in.

Stage replied that part of his participation would be the Southwest Boulevard light, which is around $80,000. That would include street lights, which are not typically part of a county project.

Do we have a name for this road yet?

No.

Stage said he would recommend that, it the text, it be identified that that road be built to city specifications.

Brown said that there is no need to build it to city specs, because it will not be a public road.

Stage said that it will not be a public road from a legal standpoint, but it will be a public road from the point of view of ingress and egress.

Brown said the developer will probably put heavy-duty blacktop and other things on it, but they won't curb and gutter that street. It's just an access drive into the shopping center.

Won't it be the access into the residential area, too?

Correct.

Saxton asked why they wouldn't put curbs and gutters into it. What will they do with the water?

"The water will go into the storm drain."

Brown said that we have to understand that it will be the front entrance into the apartments, and that if you are going to market the apartments, you have to have a nice entryway. Typically, the main driveway does, most of the time, have curbs and gutters. All he is saying is, there is no reason to say they will do it to city specs, because that is a whole different requirement. That doesn't exclude Dan from putting curbs and gutters in there, and a walking path, or something like that. The only thing that bothered Brown about it was saying "city specs."

Saxton asked, "So you don't have any objection to curbs and gutters?…Okay, should I add that on?"

Slane said, "Also, Bill, we will…"

Saxton asked, "What will you do about traffic of people walking in and out?"

Brown said, there will be a path that goes through there.

Okay, will you add that, too?

Brown said, "Yep."

Hurd asked for clarification of locations of curb cuts.

Brown said that there will be a full-access intersection where the traffic signal is.

Hurd asked about curb cuts for the outlots.

Brown said they identified one that will be right-in, right-out. They also had conversations with Mike Meeks, about maybe getting some additional curb cuts in between those, and he didn't see any particular problem with it, because there will be no left turns.

What about the corner lot, with the gasoline station?

You probably have a right-in, and then another drive somewhere along Big Run.

Hurd asked whether we could add a specification to the text not to have any on Big Run, so that all the access would be internal?

No. That wouldn't work.

Slane said that the cut on Big Run would line up with the church. There will be only a maximum of two cuts. They have agreed to one, and the developer is asking for another. A curb cut right at the gas station would be too close to the intersection.

Hurd asked whether that could be in the limited text.

They could put it in, but that is a county rule, anyway.

A school representative said that, it is their understanding, in talks with Franklin County, that the curb cuts to Big Run South, west of Holt, would be about 450 feet minimum, from the intersection, to meet county requirements.

Brown said, "Correct."

Province asked how they will access the gas station, then.

They are not sure they would ever build the gas station, but that's what Big Bear is asking for. Customers would have to come through the parking lot.

Saxton asked for information about the apartments, such as square footage.

Brown said they have no users. They looked at the reaction to the original plan, and the results of their meetings with Traffic, and they came back with an alternative.

Saxton asked whether they will come back to WAC when they are ready to put apartments in.

Brown said no. They don't have a user.

Saxton said he understands that. But we don't want to be stuck with 300-square foot apartments, either.

Slane said they would agree to a minimum square footage.

Saxton asked what minimum square footage they have in mind.

Province said that 900 has been our minimum for a standard two-bedroom apartment.

"That's cool." The apartments are probably two, three, five years away.

But the text remains with the property forever.

900 is fine.

Saxton asked whether there would be any garages.

I don't know.

Someone from the audience asked whether it is a guarantee that there will be apartments there, or whether they are saying that, if something is built, it will be apartments, but they don't have to build anything at all?

Brown said they don't have a buyer. Whatever agreements we make stay on the property until you go through the rezoning process. Sometimes, the best thing, in our opinion, is that the property is zoned but nothing is ever built on it. Probably, the first thing that will happen is that the Big Bear will be built. The apartments would be some time in the future. But whatever agreements are made regarding landscaping and building materials would still apply to the property, and the only way they could be changed would be to go back through the zoning process again.

So we could have a Big Bear and nothing else.

You could.

It's unlikely. As the area grows, they could build the apartments themselves, after there is enough activity in the area to justify putting in the apartments.

Kroger's and Lowe's have been there about two years now, and that development isn't fully built, yet. Now, Big Bear is planning to come in two miles down the road, a two-lane road with some turn lanes in the middle, and they think they can fight Kroger. People would have to drive past Kroger to get to the Big Bear, or they would have to come from the center of Grove City, away from the Big Bear there, to this new Big Bear, basically on a two-lane road through residential areas.

Brown said that these are main arterials, and they have already explained the improvements that the schools are participating in. Neither Grove City, the schools, nor Mr. Slane can afford to fix the road from this point, to up by where Lowe's is. What they are required to do, by Columbus, is make sure that the roads are designed and built to handle the traffic that they are going to generate. "What you have heard here, is what the agreement of the other parties to, I think we're getting more bang for our buck, and if Ike can convince the county to use the city specs, then you are even going to get a better-looking street than what the county was originally proposing to do for this intersection."

But, the road will be developed for three hundred feet, and then there will be a bottleneck.

Well, typically, the problem on township roads is left turns. That's why, when you go down Holt Road, for example, where you have the subdivisions, you see the left turn lanes created. A two-lane road can carry a great deal of traffic. The problem that you have, is that, when someone makes a left turn, the capacity goes to zero. That's why, in the interim, to extend the life of the road, you do a series of left-turn lanes.

Will the speed limit be reduced? It's a 50 mph road now, both ways. Or 40.

Traffic engineering said that they would reduce the speed limit.

That's the county's call. They will have to go out and see what the average person is doing, speed-wise, and make an adjustment.

There will be a school zone.

If the right-of-way goes into Grove City, there will be a whole different set of requirements.

Province said that project of this kind are usually built in three or more phases. They aren't going to build this huge parking lot first?

Oh, no. They will build it in phases. If the first thing that is built is the Big Bear, then there will be the building and that lot. And then, in the one or two of the outlots, something will happen. But the rest of it will all stay as is. When the traffic signal is installed, then they will put the road in with the connection, because that's the left turn with the median. The rest will stay open fields, until they build it in stages.

What about signage?

The zoning people said they would rather have signage issues addressed by the Graphics Commission, as opposed to the zoning application.

Province said, "That's good. But what do you plan on doing on signage?"

We will conform to Code, and we will probably have a pylon sign identifying the center.

Province said that each outlot can have three signs on the building and a freestanding sign, and signage along the canopy…

"No, I don't think so."

Province said that that is all allowed under C-4.

Brown said, "Typically, you are allowed one wall sign and one freestanding sign per street frontage for an individual tax parcel. Now, typically, what happens with a shopping center, is that you end up with several different ownerships or mortgages, and since sometimes we have to come back with a graphics plan, because the sign that may go out here isn't on the tax parcel where the Big Bear is. So, we have to go in front of you before we go to the Graphics Commission to adjust that. But it's sometimes hard to anticipate, no matter how well I think I've answered all the questions, and we've done this in the past.

"With Georgesville, we guessed wrong, and we had to come back."

The city, on a policy level, said that graphics people are trained to handle the signs, and they need to go there.

On an outlot that is a separate tax parcel, what you would be allowed would be a wall sign and a single freestanding sign on Holt Road, and he thinks you would also be allowed another wall sign where you have the main entrance into the building.

Hurd asked whether the limited text would specify how many acres would be apartments and how many would be commercial.

Yes. There would be a legal description for all the commercial ground and a separate legal description for the residential ground.

So this is a preliminary limited text? We won't be seeing this again, then?

Brown said that a final version would be made a part of the ordinance. The ordinance, itself, consists of a bunch of "whereases" and legal descriptions, and the zoning text. If we want him to include the acreages in the subheadings, he can do that.

Right.

If he changes something, we'll never see it again, will we?

Brown said yes.

D. Province said that it will be available on the night of the zoning.

J. Province said it will be made available to us when it's too late to do anything about it.

D. Province said that, in theory, we will see it before the vote.

J. Province said, "…At least five minutes…"

Stage said he would also suggest that it be incorporated into the text that there be an "entrance element" at Big Run and Holt (Big Run into the center and Holt into the center) and that it be of complimentary stone or whatever the predominant material of the façade is. A landscape element would make a nice feature.

Saxton asked whether there would be any objection from Slane.

Slane asked Saxton to call for the vote.

Saxton stated that he thinks it is great to have the developer here, and the cooperation he has given us to take something that could be nasty, and to make it nice. As much as he hates to, he even has to compliment Mr. Brown.

"Don't put that in the minutes!"

Brown said, "It's too late now."

Saxton moved to approve the application, with all the terms and conditions that we have set forth, and that copies be sent to the city of Grove City, to us, and to South-Western City Schools, to make sure we aren't forgetting anything. Several people seconded. Province asked whether he wants a roll-call vote. Saxton said he does want a roll-call vote. A roll-call vote was taken. The motion was approved unanimously.

Brown said the issue will go before the Development Commission on October 12.

Saxton thanked the representatives from Grove City and from the South-Western City Schools for appearing tonight.

Saxton announced that, at our next meeting, we will have another zoning request coming up. It will concern the property on Holt Road, north of Alkire, on the west side of the street, behind the houses and the box factory. It is zoned LC-4 and LM-2 right now. Glimcher wants additional zonings of L-AR-12 and LR-2. The property in question extends north all the way to Arby's.

Saxton announced that the WAC zoning committee will hold a separate meeting on October 10, 2000.

Province introduced Tom Fortin.

Fortin stated that he bought 1280 of the 1736 apartments at Lincoln Park West in October 1999. He was not the individual who applied for annexation in the first place. He has not applied for annexation to Columbus. By the end of this month, he intends to acquire ownership of the remaining 456 apartments, therefore concluding the acquisition of the entire Lincoln Park West community.

Lincoln Park is improving nicely, but there is a lot of work yet to be done. He is determined to continue to improve it, to make a positive change in the entire West Side. Statistics show that the occupancy now is just over 87%. At this time last year, it was 45%. The burden on Franklin Township Fire Department is very low. The police runs into Lincoln Park prior to his ownership averaged 130 runs per month. Now they are fewer than 25 runs per month. He has 5000 residents. The place is twenty times larger than the average size apartment community. For the last four months, petty thefts reported averaged only $2500 per month. The entire community, prior to last year, averaged over $40,000 per month.

The residents are happier, they feel safer, and the property conditions are greatly improved. He has lost a lot of hair during the last few months, but he has gained a lot of friends.

Regarding annexation, the benefit to the community is that the Lincoln Park West community would save nearly $500,000 per year. Such a savings would have an enormous positive impact and absolutely catapult Lincoln Park back to its original prominence. Tenants of Lincoln Park deserve a better quality of life. These 5000 people are essential to the economic continuance of the West Side. He provides quality, safe, affordable housing to people who earn less than $10 per hour, who are adding a lot to the labor force for employers in the area. It is not public housing; less than one percent of the tenants receive Section 8 rental assistance. The residents are employed; they are not on welfare. The savings from annexation would benefit the entire Westland area.

Fortin has not yet met with any City of Columbus police officials. He won't do so until their staffing reports come out in October.

Saxton said that he thought Fortin had already applied for annexation. Since he has not yet done so, WAC cannot hear the application presentation in October. As soon as we receive the paperwork, we will schedule it.

That's fine.

Mueller asked what the total acreage is, of the 1736 apartments.

Fortin said it is approximately 110 acres.

And the acreage of the remaining parcel is…?

Fortin said he doesn't know, exactly. It's roughly twelve units per acre. It may be about 90 acres, roughly.

Province remarked that there was a story in the newspaper recently. About 24 people came from Borden's, Westland Community Concerns, and the family violence prevention group, and spent a day planting flowers and building a playground for the children of Lincoln Park West.

Saxton reported the latest information regarding the issue of the filling station to be constructed at the corner of Alkire and Holt, which we turned down four times, before it was finally approved by the city. They have run into trouble. It seems that the people failed to obtain permission from the EPA to change the course of the creek.

We received a request from the people who are fighting this issue, to continue to support them in their opposition to a filling station on this site. Saxton said we need a motion that we still feel the same way, that we did not want a filling station on this site, and we still don't want a filling station on this site.

An area resident said he lives within 125 feet of the site of the filling station. He did not receive notification of the proposed zoning meeting. He measured the distance from the filling station to his house, and he does live within 125 feet of the site.

It is a residential area with children in the neighborhood. They are sitting on a retention pond. The gas station will add crime, traffic congestion, it would be a safety issue, it would add noise and excessive light coming into their windows. They want our support and direction.

J. Province said that the standard technique of the developers is to send the notice to the corporate headquarters of the holder of the mortgage on the neighbor's house. It then takes several months for the clerks there to figure out what this paper is, and to decide to forward it back to the resident. By that time, it is too late to fight the zoning issue.

A resident said he has never received a notice of a rezoning, and he lives in a single family home, not a condo. It's not a Qualstan; it's a Ramonda home. The gas station's canopy is already up, and it extends right up to the stream. It will be very difficult for a customer to pump gas into a car while standing in a stream.

D. Province said that the developer was planning to build a "U" of pipeline all around the property line.

They are very creative.

D. Province said the developer originally came to us, asking for a C-3 zoning, which could be a law office, or maybe a barbershop. They got that passed. Then they came back, saying that a gas station would be a less intense land use, and City Council bought that argument.

Saxton said that that happened about 45 days before the election.

Province said that that happened in September or October of last year. WAC sent out over a hundred letters, and fliers were distributed.

The neighbor said he received more notification about a nearby auction of a house, than he did about any zoning change.

Province said we are not permitted to put up a sign of any kind.

Saxton asked whether anyone had objections to WAC repeating its support of the neighborhood against this proposed gas station.

No.

Mueller moved that we continue to support the neighbors in opposition to this issue. Balthaser seconded. Approved. Province said he will send another letter.

Saxton told the neighbors that, so far as he understands it, no permit was issued by the EPA. The developer will had to go south somewhere, perhaps to Cambridge, to get the permit. Then he has to go to Delaware to get it approved. None of this was done. The neighbors are now fighting a political battle.

Mueller asked Saxton to explain our relationship to City Council, as an advisory body.

Saxton said we advise City Council of what we want, and what we think, and then they do as they please.

Province said they listen to us, they listen to the developer, they listen to Staff, and then they decide what is the best path to follow.

Does the developer come here first, and then to City Council?

The developer comes here first, and then he goes before the Development Commission, which consists of professional architects and lawyers, who theoretically are much better than we are at doing this, and they tweak the proposal, say yes or no, and then send it on to City Council.

J. Province said they will refuse to listen to anything about the stream. When you go before the Development Commission, as soon as you say the word "water," they plug their ears up. They say that that is not a "land use issue," which is their only area of interest.

…And then it never comes back to the Commission?

D. Province replied, only if they ask the developer to return to the Commission. If the matter isn't satisfactorily presented to the Development Commission, if too many important matters left open, or if there is too much opposition at that meeting, they may ask the developer to return. Mr. Goldman has done this a number of times. However, he has only to come back to us; he doesn't have to obtain our approval.

J. Province said that, when he comes before us, he has fulfilled his requirement. He is not obligated to tell us anything substantive.

D. Province said it was obvious last week. He appeared, said he would build it, he will be at the next meeting, said goodbye, and he left.

That was…?

That was the lawyer who is representing the developer on the gas station issue. He came before us regarding another nasty zoning issue.

D. Province told the neighbors that we are about to hear a zoning request for the empty field located just north of their homes. Now is the time to rally forces and make their input.

J. Province told the neighbors that the best thing they can do now, is to go to City Hall in the middle of the day, in the middle of the week, and talk to the City Council people and their aides.

A neighbor said they are already doing this.

Saxton told them their best bet now it to rally the EPA. They will come out and inspect the site. If there is no permit to move the stream, they can stop the whole project.

D. Province said they will be looking for silt in the stream, evidence of fishkill or destruction of wildlife. Keep talking about "peak water."

The neighbor said one of their concerns is the added burden on the retention pond that is right there.

J. Province said that, if the neighbors see an overflow, or any other such problem, they should videotape it.

Talk to the EPA about oil runoff from a gas station, into the stream.

Saxton said he was not at the meeting of the neighbors regarding the corner of Sullivant Avenue and Norton Road. Since Saxton was hospitalized and unable to attend all the other meetings, he and Province thought it best he stay away.

Morris said the Tuesday night meeting was pretty much status quo. Mr. Goldman did not enlighten anyone more than he already had.

Morris went to City Council on Monday night, though he knew the matter had already been tabled. Mike Mentel and Goldman had had a meeting at 3:30 Monday afternoon. Morris doesn't know what took place at that meeting. However, he does know that Councilman Mentel agreed to table the issue. There were 36 questions that Council gave Goldman, that they wanted answers to. One of them was a request for research to be done outside the known borders of the cemetery. There is no immediate plan to bring the matter back. Morris understands that he can develop on the property that is already zoned, if he so chooses. That encompasses an area near the cemetery. If he chooses to do that, there is some indication from the residents that it would become a legal battle at that point.

Morris talked to Mentel on Monday night. He was emphatic that he wants answers from the developer. He will not move on the matter until he is satisfied.

Morris said that Mentel is an environmental attorney. He is very well versed in these matters, and that has been a great help to us in this situation.

Province said Mentel was reluctant to vote for the gas station issue.

Morris said he doesn't know what transpired at the meeting, except that Mentel gave this developer an opportunity to do what he has failed to do in one year. Morris said both Mentel and his aide said that the developer has been asked to search an extensive area outside the cemetery, to look for additional gravesites.

We may not see Mr. Goldman for awhile, at least on this matter.

Prairie Township: Saxton said there were three issues regarding fences being built in setbacks. There was nothing serious, nothing exciting.

Recreation and Parks Committee (Locke): Locke reported that she attended a meeting last Wednesday at Schiller Park. She became jealous of that big, lively park and recreation center. She would like to have something like that in our area. The Master Planning Project is in progress. They broke up into six different groups, representing areas of the city, and they were asked to come up with a list of things they want, in the way of parks programs and recreation facilities, and then prioritize it. Then, they came together, to see whether there was any consensus. The project will continue for about a year.

Tomorrow night, at 6:30, at Westgate Shelter House, there will be another meeting. We should all come out, to talk to them to tell them we need parks and parkland development.

Morris said he cannot attend that meeting. He wants to know where the city intends to get the funds to do these things.

Locke agreed. We passed a bond package in November, and we have not received any benefit from it.

Province said that the north end has been campaigning for six years to get a recreation center. It has been their Number One Top Goal. They finally got it included in the last bond package, and it will be built. If we want a rec center in six years, we have to get it in the next bond package. If we don't fight for six years, we won't get anything.

Province asked, aren't there 120 people on that committee?

Locke said there were supposed to be about 25 people at the meeting. They didn't actually have half that number.

Attrition. Don't hold meetings for eighteen months, and see who is left.

A neighbor asked whether the meeting is open to the public.

Oh, yes. We are about 130 acres short of parkland now. They keep building houses, but not parks.

A neighbor suggested he knows a perfect place for a park. It has a stream running through it, and there is already a canopy for shelter.

Province said he received notification that they are finally going to install the eight-terminal light switch, so that there will be left-turn arrows in all directions, at Norton and Sullivant. The "speed bumps" that have appeared are the sensors that are being put in the road, and in the next couple of months, the box will appear, and the new traffic signal will be installed. Province wrote a letter about eighteen months ago, under WAC's direction, and it took about eighteen months to get it. It costs about $80,000 for the box, and probably another $80,000 for the light system.

You have to be a squeaky wheel. There were 82 intersections on the list, but we were moved up the list.

Weber said that we are happy that the light has finally been installed on Georgesville Road and Boltonfield Street.

Now, if we can only get two turn lanes from Georgesville Road onto Holt, everything would be great.

Going toward Georgesville Road on Holt, is there any way there can be a right turn arrow? Especially when there is a right arrow going toward Georgesville Square?

Province said we have asked about that. If they are going to put a gas station in, there should be a turn lane and a traffic signal.

Province suggested the neighbors tell Mentel that, if there is to be a gas station, there should be a right turn lane and a traffic signal with arrows.

Locke said that Linda Walker asked her to bring up the question of tombstones in Postle Cemetery. She is concerned that the ones in the cemetery are being vandalized. Can they be put somewhere safe until the area is developed?

Morris said that would be up to C.V. Perry, as owner of the property.

Locke asked whether there are any other tombstones in storage.

Province said that they have been stacked in a corner of the cemetery. There are no others, so far as we know. Province did ask a school art teacher to encase them artistically in concrete, since we don't really know where each one belongs. However, they are mostly sandstone, and the weather wears on them.

Weber asked how WAC members are notified of special meetings. He was not notified of the special meeting on September 12.

Province said he didn't have time to write letters, so he tried to telephone everybody. Evidently, he had Weber's telephone number wrong.

Weber asked whether it would be possible to get the minutes of the previous meeting prior to the current meeting, rather than trying to read the minutes while the meeting is in progress. Can they be mailed with the agendas?

J. Province said it is a question of additional postage. When they are twelve pages long, they make a heavy packet. Also, it means I can't wait until the last minute to transcribe them.

D. Province said that we had been voting to approve the minutes the meeting after they were handed out.

J. Province said that doesn't help much; they still end up being read during the meeting, rather than ahead of time. And, incidentally, we did not vote to approve last month's minutes.

D. Province asked for a motion to approve the August minutes. Jantzen so moved. Mueller seconded. Approved.

The meeting ended at 8:35pm.