WESTLAND AREA COMMISSION

October 18, 2000

The meeting was called to order at 7:00pm. Present were Daniel Province, chair, Betty Balthaser, Virginia Frank, Debbie Hoang, Mike Hurd, Glen Hymer, Dorothy Jantzen, JoEllen Locke, Mike McKay, Tom Morris, Jamie Mueller, Jan Province, Rick Weber, and Jeff Woodson. Saxton was excused. Also present were Dana Horne, Nikki Jenkins, Dave Perry, Mike Shannon, Tim Schmidt, and many others.

Jantzen moved to approve the minutes for September 2000. Morris seconded. Approved.

New table tent signs were distributed. Many were misspelled. New ones will be available next month.

Nikki Jenkins is present to answer any questions regarding the Neighborhood Pride project. She distributed literature, including a notice about tomorrow's open house at the Cherry Creek YMCA. Representatives from all city government departments will be there. If there are any questions right now, she will answer them in the hallway.

Zoning Committee (Saxton): Province introduced Mike Shannon, who will speak regarding Z00-085. Shannon distributed copies of the site plan for his proposed zoning. Shannon represents the property owner, The Glimcher Company, and the developer, T&R Development. Dave Perry, who presented this case to the Zoning Subcommittee, is en route, and he has the copies of the limitation text with him. When he arrives, he will pass out the copies of the limitation text that had been submitted to the Zoning Subcommittee.

The proposed development is about 35 acres. A large proportion of it is already zoned LC-4. The remainder is currently zoned LM-2. The proposed rezoning will create three subareas. About five acres of the property would be rezoned to LC-4, along the frontage on Holt Road. This would have the same limitation text as the property WAC already approved for the Georgesville Square shopping center area. That area measures about 5.01 acres. Again, the standards are identical to Georgesville Square.

They are also proposing two residential components. One would be a condominium; the other would be a single-family component. The condo area would be the farthest from Holt Road. Shannon distributed copies of a summary describing the condo development.

Shannon said that the condo development would be a gated community. The single entrance/exit off Holt Road would lead to a circular area, where there would be gates in either direction to provide privacy. The circle will have a 56' turn radius, to accommodate buses and the like. These will be high-end condominiums. The text description describes the standard amenities: nine-foot ceilings, cathedral ceilings on the top floor, chrome bath fixtures, ceramic towel bars, central air-conditioning, ceiling fans, cable-ready, etc. Fireplaces will be an available option.

Shannon said that each unit will measure a minimum of 1200 square feet. Each unit will contain two bathrooms. The density is twelve units per acre, which is consistent with what has been done throughout the neighborhood. There will be a clubhouse with meeting rooms, and a swimming pool. Other amenities they will provide will be screened porches with balconies. They will be two-bedroom units.

They will sell in the $90,000 to $110,000 price range.

The single-family lots will conform to WAC's standards that call for a mixture of 50', 55', and 60' frontages. Their plan call for approximately 24 60' lots, 27 55' lots, and 28 50' lots.

Limitation texts for the houses will be available when Dave Perry arrives. The ranches will measure a minimum of 1100 square feet, and the two-story houses will be a minimum of 1200 square feet. Every unit will have a two-car garage. They made some commitments regarding building materials. Dave has all the pretty pictures, too. The current zoning, for manufacturing and intensive commercial zoning, would not be compatible with the residential neighborhood, and this plan is an improvement.

Frank asked why the list of standards identifies the development as "River Ridge Condominiums on Alum Creek."

Shannon said that that is a similar product. The only difference is that that text refers to a third story. This development will consist only of two-story buildings.

Perry arrived, and he distributed copies of the limitation text. Shannon stated that, with any residential or commercial zoning, certain standards are automatically required. If there are additional standards imposed, then the zoning classification becomes "LR-2" or "LC-4", denoting that there is a limitation text. All the typical zoning standards that WAC requires, as part of their zoning plan, are included in the limitation text, such as buffering, downlighting, etc. Subarea A, which is the commercial development, contains text that is identical to the text of the Georgesville Square shopping center area. Subarea B is the condo development as described in the limitation text. Subarea C consists of about 16 1/2 acres of single-family development, with the breakdown of 50', 55', and 60' lots, as he had just described.

Mueller asked how far south this development is, on Holt Road.

Perry replied that the public street is directly aligned with the south entrance into Georgesville Square.

A neighbor asked, Will the service drive, as shown on the map, actually exist?

There is a service drive in the commercial area. The Holt Road intersection is, again, aligned with the service drive of Georgesville Square.

What is the distance between the turn in the service road and the property line? Right now, there is a natural boundary of sorts, for drainage purposes. Does the developer intend to take that out, or will it be maintained?

Where is he talking about?

"That's coming from the Holt, that's coming from Georgesville Road..."

Okay, this is on Georgesville Square, looking west...

"That's correct. It's showing the natural boundary, for flooding. However, I'd say about fifty feet out from the property line? How tight are you? Do you intend to take that out, in terms of when you put in the service road? And how close, I mean, do you have any measurements as to the proximity as to your own property line and my own? That's my concern. And the reason before that, is that...for two reasons. Number one, the safety concern, because we're going to have a tight curve, I'd like to see some type of natural boundary, at least protecting my kids a little bit. And also the flooding. I don't know how whether you all intend to put in a sewage, or whether you all intend to attach it to the current drainage system in Westbrook Village."

Province asked him to identify himself.

He said he is Kevin Murphy, and he lives on Georgesville Road.

Perry said that the road alignment is being dictated by the City of Columbus to control access points onto Holt Road, for location of signals. Public street access into the tract is therefore aligned with the south access into Georgesville Square. There will be a traffic signal at the intersection. "The road alignment, given the fixed point of intersection with Holt Road, the public street will be dedicated west on the tract, and there will be a...we're working on the specific engineering details of that, but...there will be, I would expect, a small strip of land between your property line and the right-of-way line, and then additionally, there would be on the order of fifteen to twenty feet from that right-of-way line to the curb line of the actual road." Those are the mechanics, given the location, where the road has to be, by the city, and meeting required curb design specifications in terms of how the road lays out. In terms of buffering the property, he is aware of its existence now. It probably wasn't put there by design; it was just the placement of excess dirt. There will be buffering in relation to that property, with a tree line as specified in the limitation text. Given the dimensions, if some amount of mounding can be worked into that, they wouldn't have any problem with doing it, either.

The third aspect of the question Perry heard was storm drainage. Perry referred that part of the question to an associate named "Dan."

It is a little preliminary at this time. However, there are three outlets for the total 35-acre property. One is just north of the main entry drive. The second one is just south of the service drive. Those two are a larger tributary area for a lot of land further west. The final outlet is a catch basin located in the middle of the single-family area on the property line between Westbrook and their proposed development. Existing stormwater, the entire watershed, is hitting those three points. Once the property is developed, under city guidelines, they cannot exceed the rate of runoff that occurs there now. They will be providing retention and detention ponds on the property, to slow down the release of water into those three locations.

Province asked whether there will be a deceleration lane coming southbound on Holt. This would help alleviate the problem caused by people having to make that sharp turn into the development. If a truck doesn't make that turn, he doesn't want it in his backyard. Can there be a mound, or some kind of structure, bollards, or something, at that corner?

Are you talking about the service drive?

He's talking about southbound on Holt, making rights into the public street.

Right. It would be their desire to put some very large pine trees all the way up and down and through that entire back property line. He wishes the owners of that property were here...

They are.

Unfortunately, because of the alignment of the intersection, they are stuck with the location of that street where it is shown. It will be a three-lane street. They are looking at fifteen to twenty feet of grass area between the curb of the new street, and that property line. That allows some area for screening with trees. It would be wonderful if they could extend the fence slightly into their property, to make room for more trees.

Province asked whether they could put a mound along the property line.

He would like to work with them any way they can. Insofar as a mound is concerned, they would like to keep it a four-to-one slope, so it takes a lot of land to create a mound of any decent size.

Province said that the city's standard mantra is that they have water experts, so therefore, the water won't come on your property. With the sewer and drain there, it may actually draw the water away.

A neighbor said that the homeowners have pictures of their backyards here, and both backyards dip down. They may be concerned that, if there is too much mounding, it could divert the stormwater right against the fence.

The resident who owns lot 71 asked whether there will be further widening of Holt Road. If the road is widened by one more lane, it will be in her backyard.

The city's plans are entirely independent of this zoning request. The city is planning to expand Holt Road to five lanes eventually. All of the right-of-way to do that is already owned by the city.

She doesn't want an intersection in her backyard. With all of the proposed condos and houses, and only the one entrance, there will be hundreds of cars travelling right behind her house.

The police say that, from a traffic engineering point of view, this is a safer situation than there would be with an unbroken, never-ending flow of traffic. Until the signal was installed at Alkire, there was literally no break in the traffic for four miles.

She wants to talk to the city about this.

Shannon told her to contact Ray Brashard. He is the city's traffic engineer. He will know what the city intends to do with Holt Road, specifically.

Morris asked whether the service road would be right-in, right-out.

Yes.

To return to landscaping, the limitation text does provide some minimum tree planting requirements. They can beef that up behind the property lines of the concerned neighbors. They can build a little bit of mounding, maybe two or three feet high, and then plant trees on top.

Weber asked about the single-family homes. If they measure 1100 to 1200 square feet, then the condos will be bigger than the single-family homes. Will the houses have basements, or will they be on slabs?

They intend to build houses that are very similar to the neighboring Westbrook subdivision.

A neighbor said that there are no houses as small as 1200 square feet in the Westbrook complex.

Those are minimums. The zoning of Westbrook Village is identical to the zoning they are proposing for this site.

She said hers is one of the smaller houses in the complex, and it measures 1900 square feet.

Weber said that there is a problem of property values, when there are houses measuring 2000 square feet, and you build a house measuring 1100 square feet beside it. This issue keeps coming up before the commission. We just dealt with it in discussions about the intersection of Galloway and Hall Road. The tiny homes there cannot do anything for the property values of the larger houses there. He understands the concerns of the property owners there, when the developer is building trailers that look like homes.

Shannon said that, sometimes, there is an apples-to-oranges comparison going on. The city zoning code specifies housing sizes in the context of minimum finished area above grade. It does not count garages, basements whether finished or unfinished, it does not count porches, breezeways, or any kind of enclosure. The housing standards in this proposal are the same as the existing ordinance for habitable area in the neighboring development. He suspects that builders often talk about home square footage in terms of total area that's enclosed. A 2000 square foot house, minus a 430 square foot garage, minus a basement, is a 1200 square foot house of finished area above grade.

Murphy said that his house does measure 2000 square feet above grade, not including the garage.

Shannon said these houses will be compatible.

McKay asked the price ranges of the houses.

He is just guessing, but the houses will be the same price, or more expensive, than the houses in the area. Those houses are three or four years old, and the prices of building materials have gone up. The deed restrictions will be similar to the houses at Westbrook. The deed restrictions there required, at minimum, a one-car garage, but he found out that all the houses at Westbrook have two-car garages. He will be happy, then, to put a two-car garage restriction in their deeds. The same thing applies in regard to the sizes of the houses. The minimum sizes that Perry specified were directly out of Westbrook's limitation text. They would be happy to look at what actually got built there, and they will adjust the deed restrictions accordingly. There is no intent to downsize the neighborhood. They intend to make this development entirely compatible with what's occurring in the area.

Balthaser asked what is on lots 12, 16, and 2?

Those are parts of Georgesville Square. Those lots were platted when Glimcher built the subdivision plat for Georgesville Square. There is nothing on those lots right now. Lot 2 is Lowe's. Lots 12 and 16 are undeveloped, and they back up to the Kroger and other buildings in the shopping center.

Potential outlots.

Yep.

...And they are not a part of this application.

Right.

Province asked whether the developer would be willing to change the minimum square footage of the ranches to 1200 square feet at this point, since there is hardly anyone who is building anything that small now.

That's fine. It really makes no difference.

...And the pages that were passed out updates last week's discussions regarding two-car garages.

Province said that we changed our minimum standards, so that we now want to see 1200 square feet for ranches, and 1430 for two-story houses. As the neighbors have been pointing out, we raised our minimum standards because all the developers were already building houses that were bigger than that.

If WAC makes that a condition of approval, it's okay.

A neighbor asked whether the houses will be part of the Columbus Public School System.

The single-family houses will be in the SouthWestern City Schools.

Province said that this land was annexed to the city before 1986.

Nothing changes on either the municipality or the school district. Most of the parcel, including all the single-family, is SouthWestern. A few of the condos will be in the Columbus School District.

Is this a result of the Win-Win Agreement?

Nothing is changing.

Hurd asked for clarification regarding the buffer area to the south.

It will be open space. It is an extra-large setback between the residential uses and the corrugated box plant to the south.

Hurd also asked that the limited text mention the city parkland ordinance. The city is having difficulty collecting that money. They have pledges for a half-million dollars, but they have collected less than $100,000. He would like to see a statement in the text, to serve as a flag to alert the city.

It is a code requirement, anyway, but okay.

Morris asked the developer to describe the backside of the commercial development. What does the developer propose regarding location of dumpsters, screening, etc.?

The commercial text reiterates the current requirements of Georgesville Square, in relation to setbacks, the tree line, the specific building material requirements, such that the front will have a certain continuity to the theme of Holt Road having a continuity of building materials. They are well aware of the proximity of the houses. This ordinance provides the landscape setback on the commercial property, it provides a minimum building setback even with the line of the condos, which in turn are set back a way. It requires the commercial development to meet the city requirement of four-sided screening of the dumpsters. It requires all four sides of the building to be of the same building material, with the same level and quality of finish. All ground level and rooftop equipment must be screened from view at the property lines. It requires downlighting.

A resident asked what uses are permitted in LC-4.

Look at page 2, subarea A. All of the uses on that list are prohibited.

What access roads will there be to the development?

The service road will be right-in, right-out. The public street will circulate behind the commercial areas.

Province said he thinks the resident is asking about curb cuts.

Yes. How will cars get to the commercial area? Will the traffic circulation take place behind the commercial buildings? Will the commercial properties face Holt Road?

Sure. The city is controlling access onto Holt Road, particularly for left-turning movements. The service road will be right-in, right-out. There will be no left turning movements onto Holt.

So there will be no curb cuts onto Holt?

It is possible there could be a right-in, but there will be no left-turning movements into the commercial area.

McKay asked how many lots will be in the R-2 area.

79 or 80.

Who currently owns the property?

Glimcher.

Do they have any intention of connecting their service road to the existing service road? He is thinking that, by doing that, they would create a shorter route for traffic heading into the commercial area, and relieving the public road.

Where?

He is referring to the service road by Fazoli's and Arby's. Will it connect to their service road?

Yes. The city is coordinating access points on Holt Road, and the service road will circulate behind the other Glimcher outlots and they do anticipate that connection.

Are there Glimcher outlots between this site and the Fazoli's?

Fazoli's is on the north side of a similar service drive to the one they have in the middle. It could head south and connect all the way down.

Is there a possibility that the service road could connect to the condo development?

They want the condo development to have the security of a gated community, with a single entrance/exit.

Morris moved to approve the motion to accept Jantzen seconded.

Was there anything decided regarding the backs of the lots?

Yes, they agreed to add limitation language regarding mounding and buffering.

Province said that the limitations he has, so far, are ranches 1200 minimum, two-story 1450 minimum, lots 69, 70, and 71 having adequate buffering both in safety and drainage, and opacity against oncoming headlights (consisting of landscaping or mounding; it doesn't have to be opaque). Was there anything else?

Parkland Dedication Ordinance money.

Will there be sidewalks leading out to the shopping center?

Yes. They would like not to have a sidewalk on the south side of the street, in order to maximize the land available for trees and mounds.

Province said WAC has no problem with putting a sidewalk on only one side of that street.

This is subject to the city sidewalk ordinance.

Province conducted a roll-call vote.

Locke yes Balthaser no Morris yes Weber yes

Frank yes Jantzen yes Woodson yes J. Province yes

McKay yes Hurd yes Hymer yes Mueller yes

Hoang yes D. Province yes

The motion was approved with conditions. Shannon said he intends to take the matter to the Development Commission on November 12.

Province explained the function of the Development Commission to the visitors. Shannon asked for the names and telephone numbers of the neighbors that he wants to talk to on an individual basis.

Parks and Recreation Committee (Locke): Hurd and Locke have been attending city meetings, too, in order to maximize the impact of WAC's presence.

There was a meeting last Wednesday night in the north end of the city. The main thing they discussed was the Parkland Dedication Ordinance, which Province has already explained to the Commission. Marie Lorenz was pointing out some of the problems the city has been having with the ordinance. Chief among them was, as Hurd already explained, that the developers are not paying in a timely fashion. The group is trying to think of ways of putting more teeth into the ordinance. Also, she was mentioning that, perhaps, the Master Planning process needs input from us to decide upon a minimum acceptable size for donated land. Plots that are too small are too hard to maintain.

Province said that Parks and Recreation says that the minimum parcel of land they can maintain is five acres, yet they will accept almost anything. We have been to the city over zonings, in which the developer has offered a "giant" parcel of 2.3 acres, and the city says it is willing to take it in lieu of money.

J. Province said that they accept the land in lieu of cash, and then they give it back. Thus, the city ends up with nothing.

D. Province said that, at the entrance to Galloway Ridge there is a pond that the developer gave to Parks and Rec. The Parks and Rec people realized that the slope is so steep that they would have to keep putting rocks on the banks, every two or three years. That's too much maintenance. So, they gave it back to the neighborhood, which has no mechanism for funding it.

Locke said that the ordinance requires that the money remain in the area.

...Within two miles...

...And the developers' land bank concept calls for giving a single, large tract of land to cover many developments, but that doesn't comply with the rule about getting the parkland distributed where it needs to be.

Locke talked with Province about having Lorenz be invited to speak to WAC. She has asked to be invited to come to update us, and to give us an opportunity to bend her ear. Locke suggested she come to our January meeting.

Hurd said that they have been collecting money from developers for all the development in the Westland area, and he would like an explanation as to what they are doing with that money in our area. The north end of the city isn't growing much, and yet the city is talking about establishing parks there. This is where the money is coming from.

Hurd said he learned from these meetings that the city has no guidelines; everything is inconsistent. One thing they passed out is a map of all the parks. They had never done that before. They finally compiled a single map of everything they own.

Province said that the land on Alton was purchased with a different set of money. It should not count as part of the parkland acquired by this Parkland Dedication Ordinance money.

Locke said Lorenz keeps talking about, in this annexation proposal of 900 acres between Broad Street at Galloway, over to Alton, is that, out of that, 36 acres would be parkland. She sees the area from the intersection of Galloway, or in that area, to contain a 20-acre community park, including a recreation center.

Province said that the park needs to be where the people are. It's difficult to get to Alton by bicycle. There are no sidewalks.

Morris asked Province to write a letter to Parks and Recreation and to all the city council members, about the 17.5 acres that C.V. Perry intends to develop around the Postle Cemetery. It would be an excellent site for a park facility or for a senior citizens' center, which we do not have anywhere in the Westland area. This would not be easily done; Perry would have to agree to sell the property. However, since Mike Mentel has tabled this issue, and Goldman has not responded to all of his requests, this would be a good time to take a proactive approach to it, and look for other developments that we could add in there, and get this to the media, and give him an option, a choice, if he desires, to back out of the development. Which the City of Columbus did. The City Council meeting Monday night appropriated $275,000 to buy a single tract of land, which the neighbors opposed for the development of single-family homes.

It's not even in the City of Columbus.

Morris moved that Province write the letters, and that this issue be tabled until further discussion can take place in January. Weber seconded. Approved.

Province said that that's what's so important about Neighborhood Pride. It's not very often that anyone comes out from downtown. Especially since there are so many new directors on board now. We need to emphasize to them that we are here. We are over 134 acres short of parkland in Westland. Even when they talk about a huge thirty-acre park, that's a small step forward.

Morris said that it's difficult to get the city to do more than merely mow the grass at Green Countrie Park. We asked them to maintain the ball diamond, and they said they don't have money for that.

Locke said that the shelter house is dismal. They aren't taking care of the things they have.

Province said he did speak to Al McKnight, who said he would look into the matter.

Province announced that the Prairie Township Zoning Commission, at its September 26 meeting, approved unanimously to create a Zoning Commission and a Comprehensive Plan for the township. Province distributed some literature about it.

The County Commissioners voted 2 to 1 to withdraw from MORPC. Teater was the dissenting vote. This means that planning and zoning will be done individually by each township and tiny municipality. No money will come into Columbus for maintenance of roads or parkland.

A resident asked the boundaries of the Westland area.

Province recited the boundaries of the area, then warned that WAC has "jurisdiction" only over the portion of that area that is within Columbus. The township trustees listen politely to our opinions, and then ignore us.

"Area Commissions 101" will be given on November 1, at the City Training Facility, 750 Piedmont Road, at 6:00pm. (The sheet says 6:00 on the front, 6:30 on the back). RSVP by October 30, at 645-0727. Matt Habash, Janet Jackson, and a whole host of people from the city will be there.

Locke asked whether we had heard about Larry Worthington's plan annex land and to build 520 apartments on Galloway Road, across from Olde Irish?

Province said he assumes that that's what we'll be hearing next month. When we were being formed, he came to a meeting to scream at us that we are trying to steal his land and force him to annex to the city.

Weber said he was interested that the neighbors, earlier tonight, talked about the "little houses" at Hall and Galloway, and said that their houses were so much bigger. They're supposed to be 1200 square foot houses, but some of them, in the middle of the development, measure 850 or 900 square feet. Most of them don't have basements, but are built on slabs.

The houses near Epernay are of a decent size, but the ones in the center are really small.

Province said we need to look at the limited text again. The area commission can ask the city to ask Regulations to go out there and look at it. If the house is in violation, they will cite the owner of the house. The homeowner then has to sue the builder. If it's in the limited text.

Province said that the combined churches will have a Thanksgiving program on November 19. The location has yet to be announced.

Locke asked whether WAC can lobby the various government entities to get together to build sidewalks on West Broad Street. She would like to work on the issue.

Morris said it's a good idea.

Mueller said he would like to work with her.

Province said there is CDBG money available every year for the townships to build sidewalks.

Province introduced Tim Schmidt, our new intern. He is a first year planning student at Ohio State. He graduated from Ohio University in the spring. He has an undergraduate degree in geography and environmental studies. He has worked for the city of Beavercreek, near Dayton, which is about the same size as Westland. He rewrote code for Beavercreek, he did a lot of zoning issues, and he made several presentations to their planning commission that ended up getting passed into law after he was gone.

Right now, he is working on a corridor study of Big Run South, focusing on the area where the new school is being built. He would welcome any information about the area.

Mueller said that Schmidt should find deeds and limitation texts for the properties at the southeast corner of Hall and Galloway.

Schmidt can be reached at orangehatman@hotmail.com, or at 325-8999. On Tuesdays and Thursdays he has no classes, so he devotes much of that time to these projects. He is currently in the information-gathering stage.

He will be meeting with Ike Stage in two weeks, to discuss south-side growth. He will visit Sewers and Drains on Tuesday, to look at the sewer lines in the Big Run South area, and to try to learn what the plans are. He has already been warned that there is no way to get any information out of them.

Treasurer's Report (Frank): Frank reported that she and Province worked on the bills yesterday. To give an idea of what the current expenses are, our space rental is $361.24 per month, our post office box runs around $14, we did have a $50 start-up fee for our new bank account, and our consumable supplies were $773.40.

Province said our expenses were $1880.63 so far this year. The city reimburses us up to $3000. Province spends the money, and he gets reimbursed six months later.

Maybe.

There will be a Zoning Committee meeting on November 14.

The meeting was adjourned at 8:30pm.