WESTLAND AREA COMMISSION

January 17, 2001

The meeting was called to order at 7:00pm. Present were Daniel Province, chair, Betty Balthaser, Janice Collette, Virginia Frank, Mike Hurd, Glen Hymer, JoEllen Locke, Mike McKay, Jamie Mueller, Jan Province, Rick Weber, and Jeff Woodson. Hoang, Jantzen, Morris, and Saxton were excused. Also present were Sgt. David Eing, Matt Emery, Linda Gaus, Marion Hymer, Maureen Lorenz, Kevin Parks, Tim Schmitt, Wilhemina Spinner, and others. Weber moved to accept the minutes for December 2000. Hymer seconded. Approved. Province stated that he e-mailed the minutes to those people who gave him their e-mail addresses. Not everyone responded to his request for e-mail addresses. Hard copies of minutes were distributed at this meeting, for those who did not receive e-mails.

Zoning Committee (Saxton): Province stated that all the applicants cancelled their appearances tonight. The newest request was received last Friday. The applicant wants to put in a new car wash next to the Dairy Queen at the Georgesville Square Shopping Center. The site is an outlot facing I-270. It would make sense to place a car wash near the new gas station. However, they want to place it so that it is visible from I-270. Thus, if you are driving down I-270, and you suddenly decide that you need to have your car washed… Is this a self-wash facility, or automatic?

Province said he doesn't know. He hasn't told us. The applicant said he wanted us to hear the request as soon as possible, but tonight was too soon. We will see it next month.

Mueller asked whether it is an outparcel.

Yes. It is 1.3 acres, between the Dairy Queen and the theater.

J. Province said that the site is prime restaurant property. Why would they want to put a car wash there?

D. Province said that it makes little sense to purchase gas at one corner, then fight through traffic, go past Kroger's, to the opposite corner of the shopping center to get a car wash. Then you can go to the movies.

Maybe it will be a valet car wash. While you're seeing a movie and eating dinner, they'll pick up your car for you and wash it for you.

(Laughter).

Prairie Township: Hymer said that the township is very concerned about the 200 acres. A lot of people are concerned about that.

Mueller announced that Jeff Nourse was appointed to MORPC.

Province said that he does intend to invite Nourse and Hart to the next WAC meeting.

Hymer said that John asked him when the issue would be rescheduled. Hymer promised to let him know.

Province said that there was an article in the Dispatch about a series of lectures to be held, starting tomorrow, about effective ways of dealing with zoning issues. The meetings will take place tomorrow, February 15, and March 15.

J. Province said that the article was in yesterday's Dispatch, in the Metro section, about four pages in. It was a small column in the center of the paper. It will be a series of programs about the "nuts and bolts" of dealing with zoning issues. Mike Mentel will be tomorrow's speaker. Peggy McElroy had something to do with organizing the programs.

D. Province said that Community Congress is the name. This is a loose organization of a couple of area commissions and several neighborhood groups from the North End. McElroy did not provide her telephone number. However, Mentel's number is 645-8558.

Province introduced Maureen Lorenz of the City of Columbus Recreation and Parks Department. Lorenz reminded everyone that Locke has been serving as WAC's representative to the Recreation and Parks Master Plan Advisory Committee. Hurd has also been serving on the committee. These people have been tasked with helping staff deal with all recreational issues. City Council helped fund the project. They hired a consultant, and they are leading staff through a master plan. As big as their department is, they have never before had an all-encompassing master plan. Various sections have had plans, but they have never tried to do it for the whole department. This is a large city, with a lot of people, and a promise of a lot more. Trying to get a handle on it and set priorities is what the master plan is trying to achieve.

Locke has tried to explain the process to us. The Advisory Committee is broken down into three partners, Staff, the consultant they hired, who has worked for the National Parks Service and who has a National viewpoint at doing this sort of thing, and the third partner is the community. They have had the formation of the advisory board, they have had several public workshops, and they have just finished a focus group and stakeholders meeting interviews. They met with business leaders and community people who use the parks and impact the parks, or who are impacted by the parks, social services, and people who have some stake in what goes on in the parks. They invited 240 people to sit down with them to explain what can be done to make the park system better for them. They are just now launching a survey project. They will send out over 10,000 surveys to residents of Columbus. They have a guaranteed return of 1,800 surveys. This will provide statistically valid information. The surveys will piggyback with a customer service satisfaction survey that the city distributes every two or three years. Recreation and Parks was the only city department that had an approval rating that went up this last round. The survey has to be random, yet they want responses from every geographical area of the city. There will be a map included in the survey, so that they can find out what areas the surveys are coming back from. If key areas of the city are not being represented in the survey, then they will follow up in those key areas with telephone calls. There are a number of things that Recreation and Parks, in some peoples' opinions, is not doing. One of these is the issue of parkland. Most of the parks that have been established in the Westland area have come about through the zoning process. They have not purchased any new parkland. They have not purchased any new parkland in any areas of the city unless there have been unique circumstances, such as proximity to a river.

Mueller asked whether she means that the land comes to them as part of a rezoning.

Yes. Someone rezones a piece of property. In the case of the Hall-Norton Park, the department paid for half, and the developer donated half. That's how they got those nine acres. There is an eighteen-acre park near Alkire and Holt. Eight of those acres are a detention pond, and ten of the acres are useable recreational space.

We are familiar with Greene Countrie Park. There is also Alton Grove Park. We previously referred to that 200-acre zoning south of West Broad Street and west of Galloway Road. That acreage triggered the Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance, "and so all of the departments had to give what it was going to cost us to see that developed with additional houses." They "targeted that area, thinking that, if they could plan it right from the beginning as being an area where it would be best to acquire about twenty or thirty acres and think about future facilities that need to come out this way." They are very aware that there are three areas of the city that need parks. The northeast, southwest, and south areas of the city are growing. They will be needing public community centers. The senior centers and recreational centers are best combined to create inter-generational facilities. They are seeing trends coming, and they have to be ready to respond, setting priorities for what these facilities will look like, and where they will be, and who gets them first. This is one of the tasks that will go before the Advisory Committee. The northeast is getting a recreational center. This is the result of a six-year standing promise. It will be at Lazelle Woods Park. It is in conjunction with a library. About forty acres were purchased for that site.

They think that they need about the same kind of acreage here. They would like to target the area of Galloway Road and Hall, that corner. That's one of the things they haven't really discussed with the community yet. That's why Lorenz is happy to come out here, and why she appreciates having the two representatives from this area on the committee.

Mueller asked the time frame for the survey.

The master plan should be finished by the end of October, so that the results can be reflected in next year's city budget. The process was expected to be completed in September, but the public workshops and stakeholder interviews are moving more slowly than expected. Then comes the survey. They are playing a little bit of catch-up.

They have a site of a little more than six acres just north of the railroad tracks that mark the northern border of the Westland area. It is part of a land bank resulting from the Parkland Dedication Ordinance that was passed, what, about three years ago? That ordinance provides either money to buy acreage or to develop land they have acquired. They have also worked out deals with Dominion Homes. Just south of the railroad tracks, there is a new zoning going in. They are giving up about twice the amount of money that they otherwise would. The idea was that they wanted to develop Galloway Ridge more quickly than usual. City Council has asked Recreation and Parks, as part of an administrative policy, that they have a plan and a way to develop each property within six years.

Mueller asked whether we are talking about a proposed park near the Galloway Ridge development.

There is a site of about four acres within that development. Actually, it straddles Doherty Road.

Province said, it is the land vacated from where Doherty Road used to go through the development.

Mueller asked what triggered Recreation and Parks to purchase those six acres.

Lorenz replied that the six acres are on the Clover Groft Ditch. It had some city property already adjacent to it. A zoning just to the north of it gave them an additional seventeen acres. This purchase just completed the piece. People across the street have a private park that is within the development, but they were already using the pond that sits by Alton-Darby Road, where the railroad tracks are. There is a little house, and the property is just beyond that house.

How did they value that land? They sent an appraiser out there. The appraiser came back and said that the land was worth between $8000 or $10,000 per acre. They ended up paying $15,000, through negotiation. This gives them a 33-acre tract of land that is mostly floodplain. Recreation and Parks is planning eventually to develop a trail system down the Clover Groft, as they get control of the stream through various ways, and re-establish the buffer. They pretty much own from Hilliard corporation down to Roberts Road. They go from Roberts to about the middle of Stemmler. Then, below Broad Street, they begin picking up property again. Then, right below Thornapple, they own the land to the railroad tracks. They are trying to acquire all the land along the ditch, right down to the Hellbranch, so that there could eventually be trail development all the way to the Darby MetroPark.

Province asked the status of the pond at Galloway Ridge. (A neighbor present tonight lives on that pond).

The negotiations happened prior to Lorenz taking over as parks planner. The deal was that, if Recreation and Parks wanted to take over the four acres, they would also take the pond. The maintenance is difficult. The banks of the pond are steep. There is sod and shrubbery, as well as that pond. It was not a good land-taking from the city's perspective, so they asked the developer if they would mind not giving it to the city. The developer said, "Sure." Thus, they did not accept that property.

Province asked who is supposed to take care of the maintenance of that property now.

The developer said that it would be done through a homeowners' association.

The neighbor said that they pay a fee for maintenance. There is a commercial management firm, hired by the developer, that manages the property, and supposedly looks out for their best interests. The homeowners pay the fee and get no representation.

Lorenz said that, when they build things without Recreation and Parks involvement, like Holt Road, Recreation and Parks is often unhappy. They didn't like the pond there, either. The city Sewers and Drains Division signed off on the maintenance of the stormwater, though her department was still unhappy with the issue of maintenance of the slope of the pond. When the developer works with their department from the beginning, the results are generally better for everyone.

The developers are now starting to compete to get parks within their developments. Everybody wants a park near his home, and they want the park finished. The developers now want to collaborate with Recreation and Parks. One, on the East Side, made some promises they thought Recreation and Parks could keep. When Recreation and Parks said that they would be out there in about six years, the developer said they had promised the buyers a finished park with playground equipment much sooner than that. Finally, the developer ended up paying for the playground equipment. The equipment is according to city specifications, and the city is taking it over, but the developer's dollars paid for the equipment in the first place.

Hymer said that he heard that the Worthington's condo development will be reduced from 440 to 379 units, because they had to add additional retention ponds.

Province said that this development is west of Galloway Road, heading into the Hellbranch. It's just south of Old Sullivant.

Hymer said "Olde Irish." Worthington is the owner of the property. Hymer does not know who the developer will be. He told Hymer that there will be two swimming pools, one in front and one in back. There will be two clubhouses. Would it be possible for Recreation and Parks to obtain some acres and get something there?

Is this a recently annexed piece that is being developed?

It was annexed just a couple of months ago, and it is just now being laid out. Either they haven't filed for a zoning, or they haven't talked to Lorenz yet. There are several sites along Galloway Road that have two-acre or three-acre requirements. Is this part of that big annexation package?

No, this is a separate issue. This issue was supposed to have come up in December, but Beth Clark held it up, because they are doing so much in the area, including putting in a new sewer line along West Broad Street. They wanted to put all of this together, as they are adding all these developments to that sewer line. We asked that they all sit down together.

Lorenz said that they have been working through Planning. She sits on the Staff Review. She thinks it is very important. They have asked that, instead of each developer giving a little piece, that they find a way to make more of an impact. Keeping open space in larger quantities can be a more valuable commodity; it works better for stormwater and a lot of other things. Their issue was, that with a lot of zonings occurring along the fringe, just before the Hellbranch…

Province asked whether her department is working with the Bikeways people.

Dale Hooper of Traffic Engineering is tasked with providing the bikeways along the roads. Recreation and Parks has a trail coordinator who works with Dale. But, they are more concerned with the corridors of the rivers and streams. They are starting to put together some pieces. They have been working on this for awhile. They want to connect Big Run from the I-270 area to Big Run Park, and then to connect to the Scioto Trail. That is one of the big plans, and one of the few east-west connections along a stream corridor. They have about 15% of that, that they think that they can get through, or they have under control.

They have Big Trails; have we seen that plan? The Alum Creek plan is underway right now, from Westerville to a stunning 1300 park that is the result of Recreation and Parks and the MetroParks teaming up. They are developing it for passive recreation, with a conservation area and an interpretive center.

Mueller asked, What is the relationship between Recreation and Parks and the MetroParks?

Friendly. MetroParks is a separate entity entirely. They're County. They have their own levy. They have a three-member commission. They have a totally different mission; their mission is conservation. Recreation and Parks is City; they are funded by tax dollars from the General Fund. They have a seven-member commission. Their mission is more people-oriented. They are into active recreation and programming.

In recent years, the MetroParks have been criticized for continually buying property outside of Franklin County. Therefore, they, right now, are very much committed to working with the city to help create this trail system. By 2010, the plan is to have 147 miles of bikeways completed. It took over twenty years to create the bikeway along the Olentangy.

Mueller asked whether Recreation and Parks funds parkland that is located outside the City of Columbus.

If they own it, yes. They use their money to fund city land, and city-owned land doesn't have to be within the City of Columbus. They do own some property in Delaware. Some land has been donated. They recently received a donation of about thirty acres from the Jeffrey family.

They cannot use their money to support the schools. One of the things they hear in their focus groups and through the Master Plan process, is that the school board has been positive about partnering with the Parks. They keep hearing that the schools and the recreation facilities can be joined; that they are really one and the same. This is wrong.

Mueller asked whether the focus groups have been thinking about the way senior centers relate to Recreation and Parks.

The Senior staff did their own master plan prior to this process. They are blending it in, as well as taking in new information. One of the things that they see as a trend is that Seniors are not the Seniors of yore. The new breed of Seniors isn't going to senior centers anymore. They want something more vibrant and more active. They are looking for more in the way of swimming pools; they want more active activities than they had in the past. The little room with the arts-and-crafts tables is not what they want anymore. Recreation and Parks is opening up the first facility that they designed totally. Prior to this time, all of the senior centers were handed over from CMHA. It's the Gillie Community Center, in the Morse Center, across the street from Fountain Square.

Mueller said that that contradicts what she said previously about annexing larger land areas.

They lost the Second and Summit Senior Center. CMHA is re-using it, so they took it out of commission. They said they would no longer lease it to Recreation and Parks, and they will demolish that facility. Therefore, the Gillie Community Center is a replacement for that facility. Although it is a senior center in its operation and programming, it is a community center. They are making a distinction between a recreational center and a community center. A community center is more involved with social services, and not just aerobic classes.

Is there a prototype that they are pursuing?

Some of the activities that they are programming are new for them. They learned a lot from the Marion Franklin Community Center. They do research, and they try out something new. This is a new experience for Recreation and Parks. There is a state-of-the-art weight room in the center.

How large is it?

It's large. She doesn't know the square footage. It was part of a fabric store, so it is a large facility.

Hymer said that Westland Shopping Center has a space that used to be a JC Penney's store. It has plenty of parking. It has an outside entrance. It is large enough to accommodate shuffleboard or practically any kind of sports activity. There is enough room for teen dances.

Mueller asked whether there are funds available to lease facilities, to operate something outside of building a larger park area.

The Gillie project is a replacement. All the money that they were spending at the old location is being moved to finance the new location. They are scrambling right now to increase their revenues, to identify new sources of revenues that would be consistent. Cellular towers. One of the things they heard from people is that they want to have safety phones located along trails in parks. They are working out deals with cellular towers to make these things happen. Recreation and Parks doesn't think they are that desperate yet, though, that they need that money, since their priority is to keep things looking green and peaceful, and that isn't consistent with constructing cellular towers in the parks. But, they are still looking at the possibility, because they are exploring new sources of revenue.

They haven't quite relinquished their hold on a few things that maybe they don't need to do anymore. A lot of cities are getting rid of their swimming pools, and they are replacing them with "spraygrounds." Instead of operating eleven pools that don't have a lot of pizzazz to them, that don't really attract families for the day, Oklahoma City has eliminated their pools and put in spraygrounds in their older neighborhoods. They are more useable and they require much less maintenance. They don't know how that idea would fit into Columbus.

McKay asked whether Recreation and Parks is targeting the area of Galloway Road and Holt Road for a possible recreation center.

As part of the annexation plan, they have anticipated a 27% increase in population for the Westland area. That is enough to require the Recreation and Parks Department to act. Thus, they have identified that need. The city wants all these sections to be rezoned at once, and Recreation and Parks has indicated that they want thirty acres, minimum.

Have they identified a particular site?

Not a particular parcel. However, they have registered their need, and identified a preferred area. None of this is a for-sure thing. What is a for-sure thing is that they do have a master plan, and that they know they have certain responsibilities. Their biggest problem is that they know what they need to do, but is it the right thing to do? Do we want a big center that is more serviceable for the whole population, not just part of it? They would like to coordinate with school and library facilities.

The time frame? Most of the money from the last bond package is already promised or encumbered elsewhere. Lorenz doesn't put the bond packages together, but she does think that some of that money is needed in this area.

Mueller said that, as the land is annexed, it has to be zoned, and then this process comes into play.

"Well, we get the thirty…I mean, that's purchased. To get that kind of acreage, no one is going to give us thirty acres. We know that. It's just, will they set aside, or sit down and let us carve out, you know, thirty or forty acres that we want? And, that would be our ideal. We have also looked at some areas more interior. I'm not quite sure… I should have tried to put your area in here, but… Basically, we have no… This is Westgate, right here. We try to serve two-miles, so somewhere in here we need the next rec. center, if we do things, you know, the old-fashioned way, which we don't know is the right thing to do. We recognize that there are a lot of people here, that, you know, or maybe it's more centered here, and there's another one, more up here. The yellow is Columbus."

D. Province said that a bunch of little zonings give us $20,000 here, $30,000 here, in lieu of land. Yet, we don't know how much money is now in the pot, and how that will end up being spent.

J. Province said, …or even if the city has received the funds.

Lorenz said that that is a concern. Right now she has to go after that Galloway and Hall zoning, at the corner. She sees the houses, but she hasn't seen the money. They have some issues to work out internally, but they think they have those rolling right now. The money they used to buy the Clover Groft parkland came from monies they collected, not from this planning area, but monies they collected from zoning. The Parkland Dedication Ordinance gives them the opportunity to collect land or money. If the land is less than two acres, it's too hard for them to maintain it. Particularly when there is a lot of land available, it is difficult to justify taking less than two acres, due to the cost of maintenance. What they try to do, then, is to take cash in lieu, based on the appraised value of property. That has been a tricky thing with developers, since a lot of them don't want people to know what their costs are. They are working that through.

The money may be collected three or four years after the zoning occurs. It's not as if the zoning goes through and the money is in their hands. They have a report going to City Council now, saying that that's what needs to happen. The money that is collected is reserved for the immediate area where the zoning took place. That's where they try to target it. In this case, it goes into the planning area. It is supposed to be used within a half-mile of the actual zoning, or within the same planning area.

On the books, they should have $800,000. They have actually collected about $50,000.

Mueller asked what triggers when she collects this money.

Lorenz replied that it is when the applicant comes in for the zoning clearance. There is usually that lag time. The ordinance has been in operation for only two years. So, a lot of zonings that happened two years ago, are only just now getting off the ground.

So, could she give us a scenario regarding Hall and Galloway? That residential subdivision in there.

That was before the ordinance. They still haven't had the deed for that. So far as she knows, they still haven't finished all their vacations of Doherty Road, and so forth. They should have by now.

She hasn't seen it. That's typical.

(He's talking about Galloway and Hall; she's talking about Doherty Road).

Locke asked, Is there any point in waiting for money for the city, or should we be working to get a grant and to work with the township and the county toward getting a senior center?

Lorenz said, she would like Locke to think that she could involve all of those entities to leverage. There is no reason that only the Recreation and Parks Department, only the city, can create a senior center. They would love to come to the table once the township and other entities have gotten together to create a center. They'll come. Within the department, they know that the need is here.

Mueller asked, for example, on a leased space, such as the Gillie Center, in the strip center itself, is the department making a ten-year commitment there?

Yes. Per the city attorney, they cannot spend money unless it is a ten-year commitment. This was tricky to get out of the property owner. He did not want to give that kind of deal. They set up that they have a ten-year commitment, but negotiations will continue. It gives them control, but it is not something that commercial ventures usually want to do. Recreation and Parks would rather not operate out of commercial space. But, as we pointed out, there is the Penney's building that is just sitting there, and there is the need, and all it takes is operating money. There are ways to get things solved.

He thinks the master plan is something the city needs.

Lorenz said they have had a poor track record in marketing. It has never been a high priority to let people know everything they have to offer. They are doing the public a disservice. There are a lot of things we can get involved with, though unfortunately, it involves a lot of driving for us.

Province said that we have three newspapers represented here.

Lorenz said she would give them her e-mail address. The city prefers that everything she gives the press is done in writing.

Kevin Parks said that this is his last WAC meeting. He will be replaced. He will be covering the county, and doing features all over the place. He has enjoyed covering our meetings.

Safety and City Services Committee (Weber): Weber said that, a couple of months ago, his wife was almost hit by a car as she was coming out of Kroger's. There was a city policeman standing right there. There were two stop signs there. (Sometimes there are three; he doesn't know what happens to the third one). She went walking out, and the car didn't stop, and she had to jerk back. She went up to the Columbus police officer, and asked him why he didn't do anything. That car went right through a stop sign. He replied that those stop signs are there just for courtesy; he cannot do anything.

Weber got angry, so he looked into that. He sat and watched, and found that two out of every three cars ignore those signs, and just keep on going. Old people, young people, Black, Hispanic, white, male, female, it doesn't matter. He saw that a lot of people had to jump back, mothers had to grab their kids and pull them.

He learned that, under the Ohio Revised Code, section 45, 11.20, this is a willful and wanton disregard for safety on streets and highways. The first sentence says, "No person shall operate a vehicle, trackless trolley, or streetcar on any street or highway in a willful and wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property." If there is a city policeman and…

Frank said it's private property there. The city police cannot do anything on private property.

Then why did the city policeman give our esteemed former mayor a ticket for parking on private property in a handicapped spot? He understands that it is a different law. However, he exercised his duty as a city policeman.

Eing said if it's a handicap spot, they can enforce it. The ordinance Weber just read said "street or highway", not private property.

Weber said that private property is mentioned in the ordinance.

Eing said they can't enforce on private property.

Frank said they can't even issue a ticket if someone hits a car.

Province asked whether the police can enforce if the property owner has given permission.

Eing said you can't enforce traffic code on private property. There a couple of exceptions, but normal traffic code is not enforceable on private property.

Could the shopping center hire a Columbus police officer to enforce?

No.

Weber said that, if a car goes through a stop sign and kills somebody, the officer can't do anything?

Frank said he could be a witness.

Eing said that it depends upon the situation. There are several traffic laws they can enforce. Running a stop sign is not one of them. Eing just learned, recently, that that perimeter roadway is private property. The traffic code does not pertain to that roadway.

Those stop signs are giving the pedestrians a false sense of security. Kroger should remove them. She intends to talk to Kroger management about it. She did see a police officer, at Great Southern Shopping Center, stop some teenagers who were "doing doughnuts" in the snow.

Eing said there are other laws. He can enforce Reckless Operation. He can enforce Driving Without a License, and Hit-Skip. There are several other ones they can enforce, but the regular traffic code cannot be enforced on private property.

What about the fact that, to her understanding, a police officer is on duty twenty-four hours a day, and if they see a violation, they are to take action where public safety is in jeopardy?

It depends on the situation. They have rules regarding the things they can enforce while off duty. They can't go around issuing traffic tickets.

Province said that we can ask Kroger's to put in small speed bumps.

They have them down there, but they aren't nasty speed bumps.

What can be done about violations on private property?

Eing said that they will take accident reports, but they don't find fault, on private property, unless there is something like a fatality, but not fender-benders.

Weber said he agrees with the lady that those stop signs do give the people a false sense of security. He has not talked to Kroger's management about it yet. He first wanted to find out how such things are enforced.

Province wondered whether sending a letter would do any good.

Schmitt said that Glimcher is generally, fairly open to public concerns. He doubts that Kroger would be able to do anything much about it.

Province said that that third stop sign appears on Friday and Saturday nights, when people are lining up to rent videotapes. They park in the fire lane to do that. He should think that would be a violation.

Eing said that they can cite for parking in a posted fire lane. It's 2151.10C.

Province said there was an incident recently, where someone jumped out of a car, recently, to get a videotape, and left the engine running. Someone else jumped in and drove it away.

McKay said that we could contact state representative Larry Wolford about changing the law.

Weber said he knows Larry well. He will do that.

Bylaws Committee (Province): Province said that a few of us went to the Area Commissions 101 meeting. The city attorney's representative, there, reminded us that all records we receive are Public Record. Anything that is sent to Province as Chair of WAC, Province has to keep. He is given nothing to store it in, and he has no place to store it other than his own facilities. Everything we receive, such as Zoning Commission agendas and minutes, have to be kept forever. Unless we change the bylaws to match those of the city, so that, after three years, we can look at everything, and if we don't have to keep it by state or federal mandate, we can destroy it. We can give notice that, after thirty days, unless we receive a written request, sent via the city attorney, telling us to keep something, those old records can be destroyed.

Province asked for a motion to amend the WAC bylaws, so that after three years, he can make room in his basement.

Can we scan it and burn it on a CD?

No. That is a possible way of saving it. However, we would still have to keep the document, itself. Electronic media does not count. We couldn't copy our tapes onto a CD without having an attorney witnessing the procedure and attesting that every word is right. And that will never happen.

Hurd asked, "By 'us', you mean 'you'? Or 'the chairman'?"

She wasn't quite clear about that. The chairman may designate someone, named Mike…

J. Province asked whether Hurd is volunteering to clean our basement.

D. Province said that the city attorney's representation said that it is the chair's responsibility to make sure that the records are maintained by the commission. We do keep the minutes at the Westland Public Library in hard copy. We do try to keep them up, though people do steal them. It costs twenty-five cents per page to copy them, and nothing to take the originals.

Is there a copy of the WAC bylaws in the library, too?

Yes. It's in the same book. There are two four-inch-thick notebooks in the Records section.

J. Province said that we are not objecting to storing minutes indefinitely. However, we are objecting to holding onto those huge, computer-generated zoning maps the developers keep handing us.

D. Province said the zoning packets come in large manila envelopes, and we have two giant boxes of them.

Weber so moved. Balthaser seconded. Approved.

Balthaser said that anyone who disapproves can put the mess in their basement.

Province said that we have tapes of every meeting for ten years, and the old ones sound ten years old, if you can find a machine to play them on. Ours died.

Schmitt said he has nothing to report at this time. He is trying, by next month, to have a draft done of the project he is working on. He is roughly halfway done. People weren't around at Christmas time. He hopes to get the report to the Development Commission and City Council before more rezonings come in.

The intersection of Big Run and Holt Road has a traffic signal now, but the poles that support it are so close to the road that they will have to be moved when any widening is done.

They have been talking about turn lanes and arrows.

They can talk. Schmitt doubts anything will be done.

There is a ten-acre "park" there that isn't being developed.

Schmitt said that, if anyone has any information about the Big Run area, we should let him know.

Locke reported that she went to the Watercourse Protection Overlay meeting at Schiller Park. From now until January 26, we should get our comments in about the protection overlay, and whether we think it's a good thing. There is a lot of information about it at columbusinfobase.org.

Province introduced a neighbor who lives in Galloway Ridge, directly behind the site of the new, proposed gas station. She is not happy about it. She was not notified, and she is not happy about the Development Commission's response to her.

Gaus said that they were rude to her, and they denied her an opportunity for a fair hearing.

(Welcome to the club).

She does intend to remember this at election time. She knows they are appointed, but elected officials appoint them.

McKay said that in today's Dispatch, Franklin County announced the Republican candidates for City Council. We should invite them to speak to us.

Province said we have had such speakers before. It's usually easy to get Republican candidates out to speak to us. It's difficult to get Democrats to come out.

Locke said that she went to a City Council meeting last week. We have a seat right up front. If no one else is interested in attending next Monday night, she will go again.

Mueller said he will go in February.

Hymer said he and his wife will go on Monday.

Gaus said she intends to start going, and to be more active in city government. She is going to Washington DC, but she will attend some Council meetings when she returns.

Province said they meet on Monday evenings, except on holidays.

She is also a member of OCSEA. She has done some legislative work.

Province said that we will be distributing petitions for WAC elections in March, and new WAC members will be elected in May.

She thinks there should be a committee of people to determine what records we throw out. It is necessary to maintain a historical record.

Province said he knows of situations where a new chairman is elected, and the outgoing chairman throws out the records instead of passing them onward. That's why we keep the minutes at the library.

J. Province said the primary concern is the huge zoning maps that the developers are able to generate on their computers in no time flat. They pass them out to all the WAC members. Even when they are folded, they make an unwieldy bundle. By the time the issue gets to the Development Commission, the plans change, and the map is already obsolete. These are the records we don't want to keep.

Wilhemina Spinner that she represents Catholic Social Services. They are in the process of relocating their homeless shelter into the Lincoln Park West community. They will have set aside sixteen units for homeless families. These will be available for parents with children, up to the age of eighteen. Families will be able to stay there for up to ninety days.

Collette said she thinks it's great, and she intends to get with her. The schools are often made aware of families in need of shelter and assistance.

Province said that we are trying to initiate an outreach to Latinos, particularly newer ones just arriving. We need to identify the leaders of that community, so that we can help them understand what's going on in the community. It's bad enough when long-time residents have a hard time figuring it out. It's more difficult when you don't know the language or the area.

Weber said that Grace Brethren Church is starting an English language school. They will be busing people from this area. Kirk Irwin is the coordinator. He has been contacting Weber and his wife by e-mail, as they have expressed interest in teaching.

The meeting was adjourned at 8:30pm.