WESTLAND AREA COMMISSION

March 18, 1998

The meeting was called to order at 7:00pm. Present were

Daniel Province, chairman, Betty Balthaser, Jerry Billman,

Hank Canello, Ron Cooper, Glen Hymer, Jim McCormick, Mike

McKay, Tom Morris, Jan Province, Bill Saxton, Debbie Wilder,

Gary Wills, and Ted Wotring. Hurd and Rinehart were excused.

Also present were Leo Abston, Dori Sippial, Dan Trittschuh,

and others.

Saxton moved to accept the minutes for February 1998.

McCormick seconded. Approved.

Zoning Committee (Saxton): Saxton reported that there have

been no new requests for rezonings.

St. John Lutheran Church signed a contract to sell their

church building at the corner of Broad and Hague, last

Sunday. A business intends to move in.

A new soccer field is planned for Grove City. The plan is

for it to be built at the corner of Stringtown Road and I-71,

behind the Ramada Inn. There is a 155-acre lot available

there. There is controversy over this issue.

Election Committee (King): Province distributed petition

forms and expense declarations to candidates for the upcoming

WAC election.

Recreation and Open Space Committee (Wills): Province

reported that, next Monday at the City Council meeting, the

apartments at Holt Road will be requesting a variance to

attach that extra piece of land, to increase their density to

14 units per acre (Z97-069). City Council asked Province

why WAC did not ask for money or land for parks. Province

replied that Recreation and Parks did not request it.

Usually, they make the request, and we say we also need it.

We have already voted on this issue. The thought was that

the adjacent open space was enough.

Saxton said that he thought that development was to have had

its own park. Was he wrong about that?

Province said that, according to her, they are not putting a

park in. "What it is, is that little piece of land that they

are dividing up into RRR, the little triangle, and they are

using three acres. The Development Commission really grilled

me on that, because one of the things we have talked about in

the new zoning code, is whether...we have had some major

fights as to whether or not to do that. Is that a policy we

want to follow, more dense land so we can use other pieces of

land, take a piece of land that is not very developable at

all, build 16 per acre here, and use this land as a credit.

That's basically what they're doing."

If a park were requested, where would it be located?

"A park, or land, or money in lieu of."

How close would the parkland be to the development, or to the

theatre?

There is the area we said we didn't want them to build in.

Who would be responsible for mowing and upkeep?

Province replied that the developer wouldn't agree that he

wouldn't cut the trees down; he agreed only that he would

not build. It is a no-build zone, which means no signage, no

buildings, no driveway. Province asked whether there could

be a walkway or a bike path from the Qualstan condos that are

below that, since those people will go that way to get to the

shopping center, anyway.

We have heard this before. Then, five years down the road,

they decide they want to build there. Is there anything that

can lock in this agreement, so that it cannot be changed for

a certain number of years?

Province replied that he did raise that issue. What happens

is that, they ask for a variance two years from now.

That's right. We already went through that crap, with the

signage.

Province said that they cannot build more than 12 units per

acre, so they are counting that acreage already. They can

only build so many units per acre. The developer is already

building too many units per acre, so they are "borrowing"

land.

J. Province said that, once they have built 16 units per acre

on a part of their property, they can then get a lot split,

and then they can easily build 16 per acre on the vacant

property, since it matches what's already there. And "each

request must be handled on a case-by-case basis."

D. Province said they would have to come back and request a

rezoning at a higher density, which they can do anyway.

Hymer asked which way we should lean on this issue.

Cooper asked, is there a bottom line to this?

Saxton said we already approved the issue.

Province said we already voted on this issue, so there is

nothing further that we can do about it. Province suggested

that it would be nice if City Council asked for parkland or a

little bit of money.

Is City Council too wimpy to follow the standards it set up?

Yes.

Old Business: Province stated that WAC instructed him to ask

the City Attorney whether WAC can hire an attorney. When

Province broached the question, he got the look that can

kill. Second, he received a reply that, if we ask in

writing, stating what we want an attorney for, then the city

will provide an attorney.

Province replied that we were not asking for that. We were

asking whether we can hire an attorney, on a private basis,

to help us in some zoning matters.

She replied that we cannot do that with city funds. But, if

City Council approves a zoning issue, and we are adamantly

opposed to the action, we can ask the City Attorney to sue

City Council over their decision.

(And then can we become part of Hilliard?, muttered someone

in the crowd).

The City Attorney normally represents us in any case. She

suggested we get a zoning attorney to join the commission.

Let's ask Bill Goldman.

(Laughter).

Saxton said we will never find a zoning attorney who will

represent a negative zoning position. That's not where they

make their money.

Historic Preservation Committee (Cooper): There was an

article in the Sunday Columbus Dispatch, two weeks ago, about

several historic sites across the state that are receiving

historical markers, including a couple of cemeteries, but the

Postle Cemetery was not mentioned.

Cooper will call Sharon Bardus for a status report. Plans

were to hold a ceremony in May.

Province said that Dori has been busy on two projects. One,

they have been trying to put together a police network and

community services network booklet, so that everybody in the

commission, and, hopefully, a lot of the responders, can make

appropriate referrals.

Cooper said that the police are now making excuses to area

residents about their poor response times. The standard

reply is that the residents have to understand that "there is

only one of us out here, and we can only do so much."

Province said that 19 District will start April 1, with five

squad cars.

Cooper said that it is not surprising that we are being told

to protect ourselves, too.

Province said that 10 District is the fastest growing

district, and they just can't cover it. There are not enough

officers to cover. They are increasing by five squad cars.

They will actually add two squad cars, and they will move

three cars from 10 to 19. The dividing line between 19 and

10 will be north of Sullivant Avenue. Everything south of

the line will remain 10 District. That implies that

Billman's gas station on that corner will have double-

coverage.

It probably means that they won't be able to decide who is

supposed to go, so neither will.

Wilder said that, on Saturday night, on Doherty Road, her

sister's next-door neighbor's house was burglarized by three

people, right in front of her. She called the police as the

breaking and entering was in progress, yet the police

response time was 25 minutes.

Province said that other commissions keep a log of times the

calls were made, and what the reply was, and whether the

response was to call someone else. Province talks to the

lieutenant once a month, and he wants that information, not

to discipline anyone, but to pinpoint problems. He will use

that information to decide where to add the new forces.

Chief Jackson doesn't think we need more than one cop out

here.

Saxton asked whether the house on Doherty Road is in the city

or the county.

It is in the county.

Franklin County is usually better than that. There was

something wrong there, then.

Billman said the city police department is terrible,

particularly between the hours of 4:00 to 7:00pm. There is

nobody there, then. If you call them, they just tell you to

call back later.

Cooper said they told his son to protect himself.

Wilder asked whether there is still a curfew for young

teens. The situation will get worse when the schools go to

split sessions.

Billman said that the police did catch two guys breaking into

his gas station. However, when the police arrived they were

sitting in their car. They hadn't gotten in; they had

thrown big rocks through the door. However, since there were

no burglary tools, and they had not succeeded in getting

inside, so that there was nothing missing, even though they

tried to get away and were caught farther down the street,

the police were unable to charge them with anything except

four or five minor violations with their car. They had to

let them go.

Cooper said the situation won't get better, as the population

keeps growing, and we just approved more new residences.

Billman said Norton Road is a shambles. There is no one you

can call to get the brush mowed down. C.V. Perry won't cut

his vegetation down. People can break into Billman's gas

station, and then hide in the woods. Someone was camping in

Perry's woods for a few weeks. (They got him).

Hymer said that the old house at 433 Galloway Road burned

down. The fire truck just parked on the road and the

firefighters just watched it burn.

New Business: Province announced that the mayor is coming

out to Consolidated, 300 Phillipi Road, on April 29, to hear

how to make a better neighborhood. It would be appropriate

for us to show and repeat the things we have said before. It

is a public hearing. They are hoping that 300 people will

show. It is a good strategy to state our position at one of

these meetings, and then, later, when city representatives

come to us, they already have an idea what our concerns are,

and we can elaborate on those same issues. Squeaky wheels go

to all of the public meetings, and repeat the same subjects

over and over.

McCormick said that WABA has been talking about a work

program. If we were to get something going with that, could

it play a part in some leverage, somewhere along the line?

The county is really in charge, but the city could

participate, too.

Province said it is necessary to document the times we call

the police, and what their reply is, and how long it takes

them to appear.

Billman said that they don't come. They say they don't come.

You call in, and they take a report over the phone. Then,

you have to go downtown to pick up the report if you want to

file charges. Then, you have to go back downtown to the

prosecuting office, file there, and then they call the people

in, or whatever they have to do. You have to make seven or

eight trips to get something accomplished. If they would

come, run some license numbers, and start nailing some people

over here, things would change. His employees spend half an

hour on the phone, calling in a police report, and it isn't

worth their time. Billman has had trouble with the

prosecuting office; he went downtown, filed papers, and they

lost them.

Province said the hot, new kids work third shift. They know

the rules. They come out, and do their job. They are young

and idealistic. The guys that work in the middle of the day

are prone to heart attacks.

Billman said that the problem with drive-offs is terrible.

He caught one, got the license number. He knows the kid's

name, where he lives, where he goes to school. The sheriff

couldn't handle it because Billman's gas station is in the

city. The city police said it wasn't worth the effort to

come out.

If he put pre-pay on his stations, he would lose business.

Billman suggested that, if the police took care of the small

things, they would eliminate some of the big things. The

kids learn that they can steal gasoline, so they move on to

larger thefts. The thieves who broke in a couple of months

ago to steal cigarettes, were in and out in four minutes.

They knew precisely what to do.

They caught a guy on Norton road selling cigarettes, but the

police had to cite the kid for loitering, because he was no

longer on the property when the police caught him. Billman

got his cigarettes back, but the kid got out on bail and left

town.

Province said Community Policing is supposed to address this.

Cooper said that the first time his son's truck was broken

into, he lost $1000 worth of tools. He called the police,

and they told him to call his insurance company; "What do

you expect us to do?" The second time, the very next night,

the guys came back to steal the replacement tools, but

Cooper's son was smart enough not to put them in the truck.

They came back with a hacksaw and tried to saw through the

body of the truck at 9:30pm. This time, he came out with a

gun, so the guys ran away. The son called the police, and

told them he has a gun this time, so the police promised to

come out right away.

Province said that, if you tell the police you have a gun,

they have to sent two cars, so if two cars aren't available,

response time can be slowed. It is better to report that you

are armed with a knife.

Cooper said his son now has log chains and steel pipe in his

driveway, and two dogs in his garage, and he leaves his porch

light on. Yet, at 9:30, they were in his driveway with a

hacksaw. There were no cars around; they walked to the

son's house.

Billman said a $2000 sprayer was stolen from his gas station,

and that station is open 24 hours a day. He knows where the

sprayer is, but he can't do anything. He filed a report, but

the sprayer has no serial number, so he can't prove it is

his. If he wants it, he has to buy it back from the thief,

in order to file charges.

Cooper said it's scary when the thieves are so bold that they

don't wait until you go to bed. These crimes are being

committed in the early evenings.

Billman said that he keeps lights on all around the station,

but it just helps the thieves to see better.

Province said that the police told him that kids are breaking

into cars to steal two cassette tapes, or three packs of

cigarettes. There are people who leave their cars unlocked,

and the thieves get bolder and steal bigger things. These

are kids who want to steal and sell something for $20, for

cigarettes, alcohol, or drugs.

Billman said he went downtown six Saturdays in a row, to

report two drive-offs each time. He got all but the last

one. That lady refused to pay for the gas, on the grounds

that the culprit was probably her son and his friends. She

did come back three days later, and paid for it, when she

learned from her attorney that Billman intended to prosecute.

But, he can't keep wasting every Saturday afternoon doing

this. And, those people aren't cooperative; every time, he

talks to a different clerk, who tells him he can't do this.

Nine times out of ten, the child steals the gas, and the car

is registered to a parent.

This has helped the situation at the West Broad gas station,

but Norton Road is terrible. The thieves wait until a busy

time, and then they fill up, lay the hose down, and some time

goes by until the clerk notices the pump flashing. He has a

guard now, but everyone knows when the guard works.

Canello asked if they don't have a pump nozzle that stays in

your car until you pay.

Billman said yes, but they drive off and break the hose. At

a gas station in Texas, he saw an arrangement where spikes

come up out of the pavement, so they will destroy the tires

of drive-offs.

Province asked whether it would help to ask the lieutenant to

come to speak with us.

Canello said that it might, but the officer would just give

us advice about locking our car doors, etc. The kinds of

things that Billman is talking about require us to prosecute.

Billman said that garbage is being dumped in C.V. Perry's

woods, and he can't even get Perry to clear the brush near

the road. Billman mowed the front Perry's property for two

years.

Would it help to call C.V. again? That worked once, a few

years ago.

No, Perry is now accusing Billman of dumping stuff in his

woods. He found some junk tires on his land, and he accused

Billman of throwing them there. Billman pointed out that his

is a filling station and convenience store, and he does no

auto service there. He doesn't change tires.

The meeting was adjourned at 7:40pm.