WESTLAND AREA COMMISSION
March 18, 1998
The meeting was called to order at 7:00pm. Present were
Daniel Province, chairman, Betty Balthaser, Jerry Billman,
Hank Canello, Ron Cooper, Glen Hymer, Jim McCormick, Mike
McKay, Tom Morris, Jan Province, Bill Saxton, Debbie Wilder,
Gary Wills, and Ted Wotring. Hurd and Rinehart were excused.
Also present were Leo Abston, Dori Sippial, Dan Trittschuh,
and others.
Saxton moved to accept the minutes for February 1998.
McCormick seconded. Approved.
Zoning Committee (Saxton): Saxton reported that there have
been no new requests for rezonings.
St. John Lutheran Church signed a contract to sell their
church building at the corner of Broad and Hague, last
Sunday. A business intends to move in.
A new soccer field is planned for Grove City. The plan is
for it to be built at the corner of Stringtown Road and I-71,
behind the Ramada Inn. There is a 155-acre lot available
there. There is controversy over this issue.
Election Committee (King): Province distributed petition
forms and expense declarations to candidates for the upcoming
WAC election.
Recreation and Open Space Committee (Wills): Province
reported that, next Monday at the City Council meeting, the
apartments at Holt Road will be requesting a variance to
attach that extra piece of land, to increase their density to
14 units per acre (Z97-069). City Council asked Province
why WAC did not ask for money or land for parks. Province
replied that Recreation and Parks did not request it.
Usually, they make the request, and we say we also need it.
We have already voted on this issue. The thought was that
the adjacent open space was enough.
Saxton said that he thought that development was to have had
its own park. Was he wrong about that?
Province said that, according to her, they are not putting a
park in. "What it is, is that little piece of land that they
are dividing up into RRR, the little triangle, and they are
using three acres. The Development Commission really grilled
me on that, because one of the things we have talked about in
the new zoning code, is whether...we have had some major
fights as to whether or not to do that. Is that a policy we
want to follow, more dense land so we can use other pieces of
land, take a piece of land that is not very developable at
all, build 16 per acre here, and use this land as a credit.
That's basically what they're doing."
If a park were requested, where would it be located?
"A park, or land, or money in lieu of."
How close would the parkland be to the development, or to the
theatre?
There is the area we said we didn't want them to build in.
Who would be responsible for mowing and upkeep?
Province replied that the developer wouldn't agree that he
wouldn't cut the trees down; he agreed only that he would
not build. It is a no-build zone, which means no signage, no
buildings, no driveway. Province asked whether there could
be a walkway or a bike path from the Qualstan condos that are
below that, since those people will go that way to get to the
shopping center, anyway.
We have heard this before. Then, five years down the road,
they decide they want to build there. Is there anything that
can lock in this agreement, so that it cannot be changed for
a certain number of years?
Province replied that he did raise that issue. What happens
is that, they ask for a variance two years from now.
That's right. We already went through that crap, with the
signage.
Province said that they cannot build more than 12 units per
acre, so they are counting that acreage already. They can
only build so many units per acre. The developer is already
building too many units per acre, so they are "borrowing"
land.
J. Province said that, once they have built 16 units per acre
on a part of their property, they can then get a lot split,
and then they can easily build 16 per acre on the vacant
property, since it matches what's already there. And "each
request must be handled on a case-by-case basis."
D. Province said they would have to come back and request a
rezoning at a higher density, which they can do anyway.
Hymer asked which way we should lean on this issue.
Cooper asked, is there a bottom line to this?
Saxton said we already approved the issue.
Province said we already voted on this issue, so there is
nothing further that we can do about it. Province suggested
that it would be nice if City Council asked for parkland or a
little bit of money.
Is City Council too wimpy to follow the standards it set up?
Yes.
Old Business: Province stated that WAC instructed him to ask
the City Attorney whether WAC can hire an attorney. When
Province broached the question, he got the look that can
kill. Second, he received a reply that, if we ask in
writing, stating what we want an attorney for, then the city
will provide an attorney.
Province replied that we were not asking for that. We were
asking whether we can hire an attorney, on a private basis,
to help us in some zoning matters.
She replied that we cannot do that with city funds. But, if
City Council approves a zoning issue, and we are adamantly
opposed to the action, we can ask the City Attorney to sue
City Council over their decision.
(And then can we become part of Hilliard?, muttered someone
in the crowd).
The City Attorney normally represents us in any case. She
suggested we get a zoning attorney to join the commission.
Let's ask Bill Goldman.
(Laughter).
Saxton said we will never find a zoning attorney who will
represent a negative zoning position. That's not where they
make their money.
Historic Preservation Committee (Cooper): There was an
article in the Sunday Columbus Dispatch, two weeks ago, about
several historic sites across the state that are receiving
historical markers, including a couple of cemeteries, but the
Postle Cemetery was not mentioned.
Cooper will call Sharon Bardus for a status report. Plans
were to hold a ceremony in May.
Province said that Dori has been busy on two projects. One,
they have been trying to put together a police network and
community services network booklet, so that everybody in the
commission, and, hopefully, a lot of the responders, can make
appropriate referrals.
Cooper said that the police are now making excuses to area
residents about their poor response times. The standard
reply is that the residents have to understand that "there is
only one of us out here, and we can only do so much."
Province said that 19 District will start April 1, with five
squad cars.
Cooper said that it is not surprising that we are being told
to protect ourselves, too.
Province said that 10 District is the fastest growing
district, and they just can't cover it. There are not enough
officers to cover. They are increasing by five squad cars.
They will actually add two squad cars, and they will move
three cars from 10 to 19. The dividing line between 19 and
10 will be north of Sullivant Avenue. Everything south of
the line will remain 10 District. That implies that
Billman's gas station on that corner will have double-
coverage.
It probably means that they won't be able to decide who is
supposed to go, so neither will.
Wilder said that, on Saturday night, on Doherty Road, her
sister's next-door neighbor's house was burglarized by three
people, right in front of her. She called the police as the
breaking and entering was in progress, yet the police
response time was 25 minutes.
Province said that other commissions keep a log of times the
calls were made, and what the reply was, and whether the
response was to call someone else. Province talks to the
lieutenant once a month, and he wants that information, not
to discipline anyone, but to pinpoint problems. He will use
that information to decide where to add the new forces.
Chief Jackson doesn't think we need more than one cop out
here.
Saxton asked whether the house on Doherty Road is in the city
or the county.
It is in the county.
Franklin County is usually better than that. There was
something wrong there, then.
Billman said the city police department is terrible,
particularly between the hours of 4:00 to 7:00pm. There is
nobody there, then. If you call them, they just tell you to
call back later.
Cooper said they told his son to protect himself.
Wilder asked whether there is still a curfew for young
teens. The situation will get worse when the schools go to
split sessions.
Billman said that the police did catch two guys breaking into
his gas station. However, when the police arrived they were
sitting in their car. They hadn't gotten in; they had
thrown big rocks through the door. However, since there were
no burglary tools, and they had not succeeded in getting
inside, so that there was nothing missing, even though they
tried to get away and were caught farther down the street,
the police were unable to charge them with anything except
four or five minor violations with their car. They had to
let them go.
Cooper said the situation won't get better, as the population
keeps growing, and we just approved more new residences.
Billman said Norton Road is a shambles. There is no one you
can call to get the brush mowed down. C.V. Perry won't cut
his vegetation down. People can break into Billman's gas
station, and then hide in the woods. Someone was camping in
Perry's woods for a few weeks. (They got him).
Hymer said that the old house at 433 Galloway Road burned
down. The fire truck just parked on the road and the
firefighters just watched it burn.
New Business: Province announced that the mayor is coming
out to Consolidated, 300 Phillipi Road, on April 29, to hear
how to make a better neighborhood. It would be appropriate
for us to show and repeat the things we have said before. It
is a public hearing. They are hoping that 300 people will
show. It is a good strategy to state our position at one of
these meetings, and then, later, when city representatives
come to us, they already have an idea what our concerns are,
and we can elaborate on those same issues. Squeaky wheels go
to all of the public meetings, and repeat the same subjects
over and over.
McCormick said that WABA has been talking about a work
program. If we were to get something going with that, could
it play a part in some leverage, somewhere along the line?
The county is really in charge, but the city could
participate, too.
Province said it is necessary to document the times we call
the police, and what their reply is, and how long it takes
them to appear.
Billman said that they don't come. They say they don't come.
You call in, and they take a report over the phone. Then,
you have to go downtown to pick up the report if you want to
file charges. Then, you have to go back downtown to the
prosecuting office, file there, and then they call the people
in, or whatever they have to do. You have to make seven or
eight trips to get something accomplished. If they would
come, run some license numbers, and start nailing some people
over here, things would change. His employees spend half an
hour on the phone, calling in a police report, and it isn't
worth their time. Billman has had trouble with the
prosecuting office; he went downtown, filed papers, and they
lost them.
Province said the hot, new kids work third shift. They know
the rules. They come out, and do their job. They are young
and idealistic. The guys that work in the middle of the day
are prone to heart attacks.
Billman said that the problem with drive-offs is terrible.
He caught one, got the license number. He knows the kid's
name, where he lives, where he goes to school. The sheriff
couldn't handle it because Billman's gas station is in the
city. The city police said it wasn't worth the effort to
come out.
If he put pre-pay on his stations, he would lose business.
Billman suggested that, if the police took care of the small
things, they would eliminate some of the big things. The
kids learn that they can steal gasoline, so they move on to
larger thefts. The thieves who broke in a couple of months
ago to steal cigarettes, were in and out in four minutes.
They knew precisely what to do.
They caught a guy on Norton road selling cigarettes, but the
police had to cite the kid for loitering, because he was no
longer on the property when the police caught him. Billman
got his cigarettes back, but the kid got out on bail and left
town.
Province said Community Policing is supposed to address this.
Cooper said that the first time his son's truck was broken
into, he lost $1000 worth of tools. He called the police,
and they told him to call his insurance company; "What do
you expect us to do?" The second time, the very next night,
the guys came back to steal the replacement tools, but
Cooper's son was smart enough not to put them in the truck.
They came back with a hacksaw and tried to saw through the
body of the truck at 9:30pm. This time, he came out with a
gun, so the guys ran away. The son called the police, and
told them he has a gun this time, so the police promised to
come out right away.
Province said that, if you tell the police you have a gun,
they have to sent two cars, so if two cars aren't available,
response time can be slowed. It is better to report that you
are armed with a knife.
Cooper said his son now has log chains and steel pipe in his
driveway, and two dogs in his garage, and he leaves his porch
light on. Yet, at 9:30, they were in his driveway with a
hacksaw. There were no cars around; they walked to the
son's house.
Billman said a $2000 sprayer was stolen from his gas station,
and that station is open 24 hours a day. He knows where the
sprayer is, but he can't do anything. He filed a report, but
the sprayer has no serial number, so he can't prove it is
his. If he wants it, he has to buy it back from the thief,
in order to file charges.
Cooper said it's scary when the thieves are so bold that they
don't wait until you go to bed. These crimes are being
committed in the early evenings.
Billman said that he keeps lights on all around the station,
but it just helps the thieves to see better.
Province said that the police told him that kids are breaking
into cars to steal two cassette tapes, or three packs of
cigarettes. There are people who leave their cars unlocked,
and the thieves get bolder and steal bigger things. These
are kids who want to steal and sell something for $20, for
cigarettes, alcohol, or drugs.
Billman said he went downtown six Saturdays in a row, to
report two drive-offs each time. He got all but the last
one. That lady refused to pay for the gas, on the grounds
that the culprit was probably her son and his friends. She
did come back three days later, and paid for it, when she
learned from her attorney that Billman intended to prosecute.
But, he can't keep wasting every Saturday afternoon doing
this. And, those people aren't cooperative; every time, he
talks to a different clerk, who tells him he can't do this.
Nine times out of ten, the child steals the gas, and the car
is registered to a parent.
This has helped the situation at the West Broad gas station,
but Norton Road is terrible. The thieves wait until a busy
time, and then they fill up, lay the hose down, and some time
goes by until the clerk notices the pump flashing. He has a
guard now, but everyone knows when the guard works.
Canello asked if they don't have a pump nozzle that stays in
your car until you pay.
Billman said yes, but they drive off and break the hose. At
a gas station in Texas, he saw an arrangement where spikes
come up out of the pavement, so they will destroy the tires
of drive-offs.
Province asked whether it would help to ask the lieutenant to
come to speak with us.
Canello said that it might, but the officer would just give
us advice about locking our car doors, etc. The kinds of
things that Billman is talking about require us to prosecute.
Billman said that garbage is being dumped in C.V. Perry's
woods, and he can't even get Perry to clear the brush near
the road. Billman mowed the front Perry's property for two
years.
Would it help to call C.V. again? That worked once, a few
years ago.
No, Perry is now accusing Billman of dumping stuff in his
woods. He found some junk tires on his land, and he accused
Billman of throwing them there. Billman pointed out that his
is a filling station and convenience store, and he does no
auto service there. He doesn't change tires.
The meeting was adjourned at 7:40pm.