Westland Area Commission
February 18, 1998
The meeting was called to order at 7:00pm. Present were
Daniel Province, chairman, Betty Balthaser, Jerry Billman,
Hank Canello, Ron Cooper, Mike Hurd, Dorothy Jantzen, Brian
King, Mike McKay, Jan Province, Dr. Bob Rinehart, Bill
Saxton, Gary Wills, and Ted Wotring. Frank, Hymer,
McCormick, Morris, and Wilder were excused. Also present
were Leo Abston, Norma Abston, Demos Katsanos, Dori Sippial,
Dan Schoedinger, and others.
Balthaser stated that she found in error in the minutes for
the January 1998 meeting. A correction should be made to
page 5 of those minutes, to reflect that Home Depot is
located in Prairie Township, not in Franklin Township, as
stated. Saxton moved to accept the January 1998 minutes, as
corrected. Jantzen seconded. Approved.
Zoning Committee (Saxton): Saxton introduced Daniel
Schoedinger, attorney for Qualstan Homes, the applicant for
V98-008, a request for variance for a property located on
Holt Road, to decrease the width of driveways in the
development from the required 10 feet to 8 feet. The issue
was brought before the WAC Zoning Committee prior to the
regular meeting tonight, and it was defeated by a vote of 1
in favor, 5 opposed, and 1 abstention.
Schoedinger said that the property was rezoned last summer,
to PUD. It was zoned PUD to allow Qualstan the ability to do
something different, something that has not been done around
here. From a standpoint of design and livability, they
believe it will be exciting and popular.
PUD allows private lots and private streets, which is the way
they intend to develop this project. There will be a lot of
amenities. There will be a substantial amount of open space.
There will be a clubhouse with exercise facilities and
meeting rooms in it, and there will be a pool. It is
entirely a single-family development.
With this application, they are asking for something simple
and basic. The code requires that all driveways for houses
be a minimum of 10 feet in width. They are asking to reduce
that width from 10 feet to 8 feet. They will not reduce all
of the driveway, but only the section from the street to the
front of the house, along the side of the house, back to a
large pad that exists behind the house, where the attached
garage also sits. Each of these houses has a two-car garage.
They are trying to develop a different kind of community from
the typical subdivision, where the scene from the street is
one of 18-foot wide driveways, a two-car garage in front of
the house, and a little bit of the house visible next to the
garage, and most of the living area located behind the
garage. The developer, here, is trying to develop more of a
traditional kind of neighborhood. From a visibility
standpoint, they have narrowed the streets and prohibited
parking on the streets. There is plenty of parking space
available in the garages, on the pad in back of each house,
and in well-screened parking areas that are located off the
streets, throughout the subdivision. This allows them to
skinny-up the streets, skinny-up the setbacks of the houses
from the streets, and bring everyone closer together.
Virtually all the house models have front porches. The hope
is to encourage people, as they did 50, or 80, or 100 years
ago, to sit on their front porches and visit with their
neighbors, and to walk or ride their bicycles up and down the
streets, and meet their neighbors.
The goal is not to live as we did, to pull into the garage,
pull down the garage door, go in the house, and have a
private, fenced backyard, and we sometimes know our
neighbors, and sometimes we don't. This plan encourages
people to interact with their neighbors.
Schoedinger passed around an artist's rendering of the
proposed streetscape. The architect calls it neo-
traditional, though he is inclined to call it colonial.
He distributed pictures of some model houses.
The garages are not visible, unless viewed from an angle.
The driveways run from the street to the back of the house,
where there is a pad measuring about 18 by 24 or 26 feet.
The pad allows cars to turn to enter the garages, and to turn
again so that they can exit the property by heading out the
driveway instead of backing onto the street.
The area they are asking to reduce in width from 10 feet to 8
feet is the ribbon of pavement that gets the cars from the
street to the pad behind the house.
The WAC Zoning Committee protested that people would have to
step out of their cars onto grass, instead of onto the
driveway. He has frequently gotten out of cars and stepped
onto grass instead of a driveway; he grew up in a house like
that. However, here, the activity of parking the car,
getting out of the car and unloading things takes place on
the pad that is much bigger than 8 feet in width, that is
located behind the house.
These houses are already built in Union County. Schoedinger
distributed pictures of those houses.
He wants to reduce the width of the driveways to 8 feet
because, in order to create this look, they want to keep the
streetscape, as much as possible, the houses themselves and
greenspace, as they can, and eliminate hard pavement as much
as possible.
The 8-foot width does not allow much margin for error, but
the driver of the car is heading out of the property, not
backing out.
Billman stated that one of the pictures Schoedinger
distributed shows a driveway consisting of two concrete
strips with grass between them. Does he plan to build that
kind of driveway?
Schoedinger said that they tried that, in order to maximize
the greenspace. They found, though, that the additional cost
of framing up the concrete made that style of driveway cost-
prohibitive. These are starter homes. The driveways will be
single widths of asphalt.
How wide would these driveways be?
The code requires 10 feet. The variance asks for a reduction
to 8 feet. A standard parking space in a shopping center is
9 feet in width. That allows plenty of space to get into and
out of a car. A further reduction of 6 inches on each side
would not be significant.
What were the objections of the WAC Zoning Committee?
Cooper said that 8 feet is too narrow. The homeowner will
not always pull his car into the rear pad or the garage. The
situation is that the homeowners will try to walk past their
cars and find that there is not room to do that. The
homeowners will then begin innovating, by increasing the
width of their driveways with gravel, stone, stepping stones,
and a variety of building materials, and the effect will
cheapen the whole area. Human nature dictates that a driver
will park his car as close as possible to the door he wants
to use to enter the house, or the porch, or the area he wants
to visit.
Schoedinger said that the kitchen area is in the back of the
house. That's where it is easiest to get in and out, and
that is where people will park.
Saxton said that he voted in favor of the proposal because it
will add 120 square feet of greenspace for each house.
What is the square footage of each house?
The smallest model is a two-bedroom, and all the rest are
three-bedroom, and he thinks it's 1800. There may actually
be a four-bedroom.
Saxton asked if the garages measure 20 by 24.
Yes, 20 by 24.
How wide are the lots?
50 feet.
King suggested that the developers know what they are doing.
He is trying to decide why we would oppose it. It doesn't
make sense to him why the developer would want to do this,
yet he thinks they probably know what they are doing.
Schoedinger thinks this plan would improve the appearance of
the development. Cars will not be parked there. It is only
a strip leading to the very large parking pad behind each
house.
Rinehart said, "I did some real quick math, and correct me if
I'm wrong, but if the ultimate aim is to improve...increase
the greenspace and improve the appearance of the development,
if you take a small lot which is 50 feet and you divide that
by 2 feet, which is what you are increasing...proposing to
increase by reduction in the driveway, that comes out to 25
lots that would be affected, that you could affect by a 2-
foot increase. So, rather than decreasing the size, you take
that 25 and divide it by close to 300, it comes out to 12.
And rather than decrease the driveway, why not decrease the
development by 12 and increase the size of the lots by 2 feet
each, decrease the density of the development by 12, and
achieve the same purpose of increasing the greenspace? Then
you have also increased the quality by decreasing the
density. Raise the bridge, or lower the water. You could
achieve the same goal."
Cooper said that in a lot of the subdivisions in our area
that exist today, we typically have 50 foot lots and two-car
garages, and standard driveways, which are 16 feet, which
match the garage door. The problem is that, in the city of
Columbus, you are required to have a huge, green trash bucket
placed somewhere. If you have a small square footage in your
house, you transfer a lot of your belongings to your garage
for storage, which forces you to park your cars in your
driveways or on the street. There is no parking on the
street in this subdivision. Therefore, when you fill your
garage with your belongings that won't fit in your house
because it is too small, it is a perception issue. Your
house will look nice when you first move in, but drive around
our subdivisions and look. The garage is used for storage.
In front of the garage there is a huge plastic trash can.
The cars are parked either in the driveway or on the street.
Here, we have the same scenario: small houses, garages used
for storage, the pad is used to store the huge green trash
can, so you have to park your car either on the driveway or
in the space that's left. If you have children, and they
have bicycles and toys, where will they go? People will be
caught by surprise. They will not realize they will be
limited, and there will be a lot of frustrated residents.
You lose a lot of pride in the neighborhood, when you realize
your house doesn't function as it looked in the picture.
J. Province said that, often, the garage is converted into
living space. Then, there is no place to store surplus
stuff, and there is no place to park.
Schoedinger said that the garages measure 20 by 24. They
have additional space built into these garages for storage of
bicycles.
Are these porches actually functional, with sufficient space
for chairs and people to sit in them?
Yes.
Then, they will encourage people to park their cars
alongside.
Why weren't we involved in the process of rezoning this
property to PUD with 50 foot lots?
D. Province said we did hear this rezoning issue, about two
years ago.
Did we see the site plan?
J. Province said no. He kept promising to show us the site
plan, but we are still waiting to see it.
Saxton moved to approve the variance. King seconded. Saxton
asked for a voice-vote.
Balthaser abstain McKay no
Billman no D. Province no
Canello no J. Province no
Cooper no Rinehart no
Hurd no Saxton yes
Jantzen no Wills no
King no Wotring no
Province asked Schoedinger when the issue will be brought
before the BZA. Schoedinger said he thought it would be
tonight, but obviously, it isn't. Province said BZA meets on
Thursdays.
Province asked Schoedinger about the development on Holt
Road, where there are supposed to be single-family, stand-
alone condos. However, there is a building under
construction that appears to be three units connected
together. (This is the development that was changed from R-2
to PUD. We approved the rezoning because it created 17 fewer
units on the property that if it remained R-2).
Schoedinger said that he will get us that information.
Cooper asked the status of the zoning application for the
proposed filling station on the corner of Alkire and Holt.
Province replied that Staff has made a recommendation, but
they have not yet told him what it is.
Is it a secret recommendation?
They have not told Province what it is.
Have they told anyone?
They probably told Mr. Goldman. That probably means that the
issue will come before the Development Commission on March
12.
Leo Abston remarked that that gives one side an unfair
advantage.
Province said that the person who knows the opinion hasn't
returned his calls. Of course, none of us has ever
experienced that...
(Laughter).
Province said he identified the new individual in the Health
Department (Jim Lee, 645-6756), who is now in charge of
noxious weeds.
Cooper said he has a job for him.
Province said he already gave him the assignment.
Hymer asked the status of the proposed traffic signal at the
corner of Alkire and Holt.
Province said that it was recommended that a light was
needed. Now the money is needed. The recommendation was
placed on a list. It is about 60th on that list.
Hymer said that they can require the builder to put it in.
Province said that the city will do that if they determine
that the development will generate enough additional traffic
to impact the intersection significantly. There is enough
traffic now to warrant a signal there. A new development
would not add enough traffic to create demand for the light,
because there is already demand for the light. Therefore,
they can't force the developer to install this signal.
So, what is the city going to do?
When the city gets enough money, they will install the light.
Or, if we exert enough pressure, they will put it in.
Three people have to be killed, right? Or three people and
two buses?
Something like that.
Leo Abston said he sees the school buses there every
afternoon, and it is a miracle they haven't killed half a
dozen kids already.
Norma Abston said there is an average of an accident a week
at that intersection. Every Sunday morning, there is new
broken glass to sweep up.
Province said that Traffic said they don't have those figures
available yet.
Hymer said that the intersection will need turn lanes, too.
Province speculated that the city will require turn lanes and
a traffic signal, before they will approve the filling
station. Right now, Staff seems opposed to the issue. They
may require a smaller gas station building, which may not be
financially viable. That's where the argument is right now.
Do they ever listen to the people who live in the community?
Coleman came out here, and said that he listens.
Does the Development Commission ever listen?
The Development Commission has, a couple of times, voted in
our favor. Then the issue has gone before City Council, and
has been reversed.
Hymer said that most of the people on City Council wouldn't
even be able to find their way out here.
True. One of them actually toured the Westland area with
Province. Another one said she drove by, on her own. She
should look at that intersection on a Sunday.
King asked whether anything can be done about Bitola's bar.
On Friday and Saturday nights, the parked cars are all over
the adjacent vacant lot, and in the pharmacy parking lot,
too.
Province said he was told that Bitola's made an arrangement
with the pharmacy about the parking. He doubts that there is
any arrangement with the owner of the vacant lot.
That owner said he intended to post a No Parking sign.
How did the city ever approve that bar with such inadequate
parking facilities?
We think the city requires one parking spot per window.
(Laughter).
Saxton instructed Province to notify WAC when the issue of
the Holt and Alkire proposed gas station comes before the
Development Commission.
Province said he will, but the item will probably appear in
the newspaper before he is informed about it.
Saxton asked how much money we have in our treasury.
Balthaser replied, about 59 cents. We don't have enough
money to go to Bitola's to buy a beer.
Saxton said that there will come a time that, if we want to
be effective, we will have to take a stand. If we want to be
effective, we will have to hire legal representation.
Province said that the City Attorney is our legal
representation.
No, we need someone like Goldman or Brown to represent us, as
they represent the developers.
J. Province said that she heard that other area commissions
establish a parallel corporation that is able to earn and
save money.
Balthaser said that she will talk with someone on the Greater
Hilltop Area Commission, to learn what they do.
Province said he spoke to Staff and to the Development
Commission, telling them that, by connecting the Epernay
development to its neighbor to the south, they will create a
shortcut around the intersection of Hall and Norton, and
there will be traffic speeding through both developments.
Province sent 107 letters to the homeowners who would be
affected. Two people showed up at the WAC meeting, in
response to the letters.
City Council decided that they would abide by the decision of
the Traffic Engineer, and ignore everyone else's opinions.
The Traffic department chose to abide by its blanket policy
of interconnecting developments, and would not consider the
case as an individual item.
After the connector was built, a woman telephoned Province
and chewed him out, demanding to know why he allowed it to
happen. She denied that she ever received a letter.
Saxton asked Province to question the city attorney, to find
out whether we can hire a private attorney to represent us.
We have spoken before City Council, and our arguments were
valid, but it was clear that the decision had been made
before we ever arrived there. We don't have enough clout.
Province said that there are only two weapons, dollars and
people. We must muster enough people.
Saxton said that he and Cooper were fighting a zoning matter,
and getting nowhere. Then, they hired legal representation.
Suddenly, the city began to answer their telephone messages,
and city officials came and visited the site, and made
recommendations. Saxton is satisfied in his own mind that,
had we not had the mouthpiece, they would not have gotten
anywhere.
Cooper said that, as a private civic association, they hired
legal help. They didn't get everything they wanted, but they
certainly got more than they would have gotten on their own.
It was the best investment the civic association ever made.
Saxton said that we all agree we do not need or want a
filling station at the corner of Alkire and Holt. He will
bet $50 that we will end up with a filling station there.
Cooper said he will match that, and will bet there will be
two. They grow in pairs.
Saxton asked Province to ask the city attorney whether we can
hire legal counsel. We know we will have trouble hiring
someone.
Cooper said that zoning attorneys represent developers, not
their opposition.
Province said that Arlie Cox and his neighbors hired an
attorney when Westchester was about to be built behind their
houses.
Saxton said the attorney got a commitment for larger lots.
They got something, and they would have gotten nothing
without the attorney. It cost them $5000.
True, it was taken away, two years later, when Arlie had died
and the attorney was no longer representing those homeowners.
McKay asked what will happen to that intersection if the gas
station doesn't go up.
J. Province said that there are now houses on three of those
corners, though one faces the opposite direction. The fourth
corner is a construction site for a residential development.
The plan is to tear down one of the existing houses to build
the gas station in its place.
Cooper said we are not opposed to a gas station. We are
opposed to a gas station right there. The lot isn't big
enough, and it has a drainage ditch through it. It will pick
up all the spilled petrochemicals from a gas station. The
roads are aligned poorly. A filling station can be built
within the commercial Georgesville Square area.
They keep changing their minds, saying it should be single
family residential; nope, it should be apartments; nope, it
should be commercial... Then, they have the audacity to call
it a "cluster neighborhood".
Hymer said the plan was to have commercial development, then
apartments, then condos, and then suddenly they want to put
a gas station there. What kind of screening will they put
along the south side of Alkire Road? We know what the city
wants as screening: apartments. And then the whole thing
begins again.
Cooper said that spot-zoning is what it is.
Province said that the excuse is that they spot zone like
that all over the city.
Cooper said, two wrongs don't make a right. They have all
kinds of cliches they use on us. It's like what we heard
tonight, about a quaint village concept of people sitting on
their front porches and chatting. Where else can they sit?
The houses are so small that they can't sit inside. We will
have thousands of people crammed into this little
subdivision, and he is telling us that smaller driveways will
make it better.
N. Abston said it already looks crowded, as you drive by and
look at it.
Cooper said we are digressing from the meeting, but we get
frustrated as we drive through the area twice every day, and
see what they are doing to us.
Province said that we have to consider what we can get. If
we flatly oppose something, they ignore us, and we get
nothing. If we settle for conditional approval, with a
request for screening or something, we may get it.
Saxton said that they will use that argument for the filling
station. They will ask what else can be done with the
property.
It's a nice house. It can be left the way it is. Even if it
is turned into an office, that would be a less obnoxious use
than a gas station.
The traffic use would not increase so much, either. It is a
mis-aligned intersection. What else generates so much
traffic as a gas station? Anyway, when every gas station in
our area is remodeling to include a convenience store, why do
they pick a lot that is too small to accommodate anything but
a small station with nothing but gas pumps? Commercially,
it makes no sense.
Province said he has made Staff aware of this.
J. Province said that the only thing we haven't done is to
send a delegation of six people to speak to the councilmen on
a Tuesday afternoon, as Coleman suggested.
What happens on Tuesday?
It is our opportunity to speak to members of City Council
during their normal office hours. On Mondays, nobody is
awake, and on Fridays, nobody is there. Tuesday, Wednesday,
or Thursday are best.
Cooper said he will go down. Call him.
Can we make telephone calls to staff?
Certainly. But face-to-face visits are better.
Is there a particular councilperson we should talk to?
No, we need to talk to all of them, one at a time.
McKay said we should inform the residents of this area that
they should not be intimidated by their own elected
officials. They should get together to talk to their elected
officials.
Province said that one of the most effective neighborhood
organizations sends out post cards, telling the neighbors who
they should call.
Abston said the city already received eleven calls from
neighbors about that proposed filling station. She didn't.
Province said we have to call every time it appears on the
agenda. We have to appear at the Development Commission to
watch that attorney table the issue, month after month.
Hymer asked what the impact would be if the neighbors all
showed up at the Development Commission when this item
appeared on the agenda.
When that room is filled with people, the Development
Commission becomes very interested in what they are saying.
Cooper moved to hold the WAC meeting at the Development
Commission on the night that the gas station issue appears on
their agenda. Saxton seconded. Approved.
Economic Development Committee: Province reported that Dori
Sippial has already surveyed one side of West Broad Street,
asking the businesses what they would like to see happen to
that stretch of road. She will survey the other side of the
street when the weather permits.
Recreation and Open Spaces Committee (Wills): Hurd said he
plans to write a grant request to develop parkland along
Alton Road, and he would like a letter of support from WAC.
He would like to see the land graded, and a ballpark built,
this year. Hurd so moved, and Cooper seconded. Approved.
Province announced that on February 24, Donna Watterson will
come to the Westland Action Center to lecture on how to write
a grant so that it will be accepted.
Historic Preservation Committee: Province said that there
was an article in This Week about Sharon Bardus and the
Postle Cemetery, and its new fence.
Cooper said he suggested that the dedication ceremony be done
some time in May. However, we are still waiting for the
historic marker to be completed.
Health and Safety Committee (Canello): Canello said Fred
Johnson provided him with ten more copies of the health
assessment book, and he also provided some parents' guides to
prevention of substance abuse. They are available to anyone
who wants them.
Election Committee: Province created candidates' petitions,
basing them on the ones we used last year. This committee
needs a chairman. It must be someone who is not running for
election this time.
King said that he will chair the committee, but he will have
to work on the day of the election. Cooper said he will
help.
New Business: Province said he received a call from CMHA.
They are requesting a $120,000 grant to hire two or three
Americorps workers for each of their housing complexes.
Emerald Glen is one of those complexes. The workers are
there to run literacy programs, and to help residents find
jobs. Province said he sees no problem with supporting this.
Balthaser said that Weldon Square is pulling out of the
subsidized housing business.
Saxton said that many developments will be doing this. The
subsidy is limited, and it hasn't been raised in several
years. By pulling out, they will probably force the city
into raising the subsidy. They can rent their apartments for
on the open market for more money than they are getting with
the subsidy.
They can also save a great deal of governmental paperwork.
Province said that Rev. Ray Rosenthal is to undergo coronary
artery bypass surgery on Monday.
Canello said that JC Penney Co. is closing its Westland
store. A professor of economics from Franklin University
said, in a Dispatch article two Sundays ago, that Westland is
"poisoned". Can we invite this guy to come before us to
speak to us about how to depoisonize Westland?
We have Lowes, Home Depot, Circuit City, and all these houses
being built out here. Are they all viewed as being poison,
also?
Province said Mill Run lost Incredible Universe and two other
stores, so surely it is poisoned, too.
Cooper asked Province to explain why we don't have any decent
restaurants here.
The explanation is that we are poor tippers. We don't tip
well enough, so people won't work as servers. Therefore,
they won't build any restaurants, because they can't get the
help.
Province said he heard that the average tip in Columbus is
17%, but Westland tips 5% to 7%.
What restaurants are we looking at? Nobody tips at
McDonalds.
Demos Katsanos asked what kinds of restaurants we want.
Applebee's. Chili's. Cooker's.
We have fifteen pizza parlors in Westland, and no tablecloth
restaurants. The nearest one, Spain, is in Greater Hilltop.
We are asking for tablecloths, and silverware that's made out
of metal. Is that so much to ask?
Katsanos said he would like to establish one, but he doesn't
have access to city water or sewers. He can't get the
facilities because he is more than 900 feet from the end of
the system. He owns the driving range.
There was a restaurant there. How did the Taj Mahal manage?
Leach bed. That's what's there now. It would be a great
spot for a restaurant, though.
It has been. It was.
Saxton said a large development is planned for a corner of
Galloway and Hall Road. He doesn't know which corner, but a
farm was sold there. There are about 200 acres, with city
facilities.
Rinehart said it may not be in the South-Western City School
System. It was not a new annexation.
The apartments behind the drugstore on the corner of Norton
and Hall Roads are in the Columbus City Schools.
Saxton said he heard about this sale today. St. John
Lutheran Church is thinking about moving here from West Broad
and Hague Avenues. They have been looking for ground.
Province said there was a "Future Home Of" sign near there
for years, advertising some church.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:30pm.